Boston Marathon Explosions

zoogies said:
Rachel Maddow discussing the Miranda rights exception, last used in the case of the underwear bomber.

LINK

“The Obama administration,” said Maddow, “has extended the reach of that public safety exemption, so it essentially can last longer to attend to the type of public safety threats that could accrue in terrorism cases.”

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has not been arrested under enemy combatant status, but is currently on track for a federal trial within the civilian justice system.

“At some point he will be read his rights,” Maddow said. “He’s an American citizen.”
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Former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey on another aspect of this:

... “the administration may see it as something that’s needed to preserve civilian jury trials.”
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Clarified a lot for me. The delay is a temporary one allowed for by an exception not strictly related to terrorism, but instead to provide for cases where immediate public safety is in question. Hell of a gray area, although I would say that these are not efforts at eroding the constitution, but rather to provide new legal tools to deal with incidents that are evolving in nature.

Without this exception, as I understand it, authorities may be denied the ability to legally ask any questions before an attorney is present, which can present unacceptable delays in these matters. My question now would be, given that no question is going to occur during this time he's in the hospital, is he going to be read his Miranda rights and have an appointed attorney brought in by the time he's healthy? It seems the public safety exclusion by then would no longer apply, right?

The constitutional discussion is absolutely an important one though and I'm glad there are such vigilant watchdogs on this.
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I heard a different scenario proposed. Law enforcement would intentionally decline to Mirandize him so he could talk knowing that nothing he said could be used against him. That way he would feel more comfortable about revealing information. It should be no trouble to convict him on charges using none of his own statements at all.

 
correct NDJ, they have enough evidence on him to put him away, without him talking. He has his rights, more than most people arrested right now, as his words cant be used against him. Lastly, someone who comes to America and PRETENDS to want to live here, under the guise to cause destruction, is not a US citizen in my book.

 
Forge said:
correct NDJ, they have enough evidence on him to put him away, without him talking. He has his rights, more than most people arrested right now, as his words cant be used against him. Lastly, someone who comes to America and PRETENDS to want to live here, under the guise to cause destruction, is not a US citizen in my book.
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Thats the thing. You, or me, do not get to make that call. If someone is a citizen is a black and white issue. Regardless of how big a piece of crap the person might be. The Constitution is there for a reason, we don't get to ignore parts of it because we don't like someone. Even Benedict Arnold was given a trial, and had a defense lawyer.

 
strigori said:
Forge said:
correct NDJ, they have enough evidence on him to put him away, without him talking. He has his rights, more than most people arrested right now, as his words cant be used against him. Lastly, someone who comes to America and PRETENDS to want to live here, under the guise to cause destruction, is not a US citizen in my book.
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Thats the thing. You, or me, do not get to make that call. If someone is a citizen is a black and white issue. Regardless of how big a piece of crap the person might be. The Constitution is there for a reason, we don't get to ignore parts of it because we don't like someone. Even Benedict Arnold was given a trial, and had a defense lawyer.
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Our government's #1 responsibility is to ensure our safety in this situation. If by not Mirandizing him he is more willing to give up information that could lead us to others that were involved or other possible devices or materials that would pose a safety risk, then I'm all for it. You act like he's not going to get a trial at all. He'll get his time. He'll get his lawyer. And he'll be executed eventually.

 
beanman said:
Our government's #1 responsibility is to ensure our safety in this situation. If by not Mirandizing him he is more willing to give up information that could lead us to others that were involved or other possible devices or materials that would pose a safety risk, then I'm all for it. You act like he's not going to get a trial at all. He'll get his time. He'll get his lawyer. And he'll be executed eventually.
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Clearly we haven't learned from the aftermath of 9/11. We were warned about losing our rights back then, but nobody listened. Sentiment like this, permissions like this given to our government in the heat of the moment, erode everyone's constitutional rights. And once gone, they're not coming back, not without a fight.

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Nobody's rights are being denied. This is a very simple matter. If you do not read someone their Miranda rights, anything you get from questioning them can NOT be used to convict them in a court of law. That's it. It's just that simple.

They can act on any information they get in any way except using any of his statements to help convict him. There is no denial of any rights.

 
Dumb question. MIT guard victim was the same as Boston bomber suspects or possibly separate suspect(s)? In other words, unrelated, simply coincidence.........the same thing as 7-11 robber. Eye witnesses or surveillance camera?

 
Applause directed to massive manhunt cops? No way IMO...... Barney Fife keystone cops!! If homeowner didn't see blood trail in his boat the police would have NEVER got him until reeking odor in 67 Franklin Street vicinity...... Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will bleed to death, probably late Friday. He was under their nose and they missed him. Remember Eric Rudoph (Atlanta bomber)?

 
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Hooked on Huskers said:
Dumb question. MIT guard victim was the same as Boston bomber suspects or possibly separate suspect(s)? In other words, unrelated, simply coincidence.........the same thing as 7-11 robber. Eye witnesses or surveillance camera?
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Hooked on Huskers said:
Applause directed to massive manhunt cops? No way IMO...... Barney Fife keystone cops!! If homeowner didn't see blood trail in his boat the police would have NEVER got him until reeking odor in 67 Franklin Street vicinity...... Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will bleed to death, probably late Friday. He was under their nose and they missed him. Remember Eric Rudoph (Atlanta bomber)?
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Was that a random train of thought or something?

 
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LINK (The Telegraph): Boston marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev 'awake and responding'

Because of a gunshot wound to the throat - it's been speculated he put a gun in his mouth and tried to kill himself, which makes it fairly amazing that he's alive at all (I wonder what the timing on that one is?), Boston mayor Thomas Menino speculated that Dzhokhar may never speak again.

Fortunately, he appears to at least be communicative.

The authorities had expressed fears that his injuries meant he might never be able to answer their questions, but ABC and NBC reported that he had started responding sporadically in writing. USA Today also cited a law enforcement official as saying he was awake and responding, but the reports have not been officially confirmed.
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If the injury's descriptions are accurate that is too bad, because this guy really wrecked himself (or got hit bad). It's hard to take comfort in any human suffering (even his) and I think a part of all of us were hoping for the justice system to strike down a smug, healthy, unrepentant murderer.

Instead the picture that's slowly coming out seems to have a big huge blank between the time when Dzhokhar was an affable, easygoing student and the bombings, murders, and hours spent lying bleeding in some dark boat.

 
I'm going to stick with the thought that he was somehow unduly influenced into doing this by his brother. When his brother was killed, Dzokhar's chance of proving undue influence flew out the door. He could have killed himself, but he didn't suggesting that he was afraid because he wasn't in compete control of his actions. I think if he were truly radical, we would've seen more action after his brother was killed.

 
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