Banker = Cosgrove

[Count 'Bility]

Bottom line is i have no problem with these early assumptions that banker wont be able to get it done. I just wanted to make a point to defend the scheme conceptually because it works. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Any scheme works if you have the right match of personnel skill and teaching ability. I have no issue with the question marks in both columns right now. Just dont blame the scheme and call it outdated and impossible to succeed.

 

[Enhance]

Bankers D is also Narduzzis D. You know. Ghe one we all drool over.

And Cosgroves D wasnt half this bad his first 4 games. The defense carried the team to their wins that first year.

Where is the disconnect coming from Narduzzi's results and ours? Is it just a talent issue or is there something we are doing differently than what Narduzzi coaches at a fundamental level? Asking in general as I am not well versed in the X and O strategy of a defense. If it is not just talent what things need to be tweaked so we can generate more pressure and start defending the pass at least moderately well?

It's a combination. We can't discount the fact that this is a new coordinator coaching a scheme to players that have 1) only been studying it for 6-8 months and 2) weren't recruited by said coach. This is the biggest problem, more so than talent or something we do fundamentally different. The players are learning a new language and trying not to make mistakes.

So, in a nut shell, that should answer your question. Guys are missing their assignments pretty badly and we're still not getting a consistent pressure against opposing QB's - some of that was on the offense for sputtering and some of that is on the defense. That said, there are persistent problems that haven't been fixed that I thought would've shown a bit more progress by now.

The thing that drives me absolutely nuts is our corner just don't make plays on the ball at all. Sometimes it's not that they're even out of position - they just flat out don't make a play. I can't remember for certain who it was, but, just before Kalu got called for that ridiculous pass interference, So. Miss almost scored a touchdown on a crossing route. Fortunately, their WR dropped the ball, but we had a corner right there to make a play.

There were also several plays where our guy could've either knocked a pass down or jumped up to make a play and they just didn't. This game made it pretty obvious to me that it's not just a lack of pressure creating problems for the secondary - this seconday just doesn't effectively make a play on the ball.

Is this a thing that can be coached into a player or will we have to wait to go out and recruit guys that have naturally good ball skills? Basically is this process going to take all new personnel or between the learning process and becoming comfortable with the scheme and coaching guys can we see improvement by year end?

Personally, I'm a little less the-sky-is-falling than some of our Husker brethren. I think this team is still struggling to understand the concepts and schemes the coaches are asking of them, and for whatever reason, there's a disconnect between whatever adjustments the coaches have tried making and getting the players to make the plays. I don't think it's entirely a personnel problem as we have some good athletes back there. At this point I think it is a schematic and understanding issue.

I'm pretty understanding with what I believe is the players' struggles to grasp what's being asked of them. What I'm not understanding of is the lack of improvement. I see the same problems week one in week four and it's with some different players in the mix. That's a coaching and understanding problem to me.

That said, as I illustrated in another thread this week, Banker is a competent coach. He didn't have world-beating defenses at OSU but he had some good defenses. I think he deserves time.

It also really doesn't help when your defense is on the field a ton and your offense keeps sputtering. The defense looked totally worn out, more-so than they should've been.

 

[PaulCrewe]

People up in Corvallis have been itching for Banker to go for years. That should say something

 

[Count 'Bility]

People up in Corvallis have been itching for Banker to go for years. That should say something

i probably havent been as open about it as some but Banker was by far he most meh hire of the staff.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Bankers D is also Narduzzis D.

We'd be running this defense if Narduzzi was hired instead of Riley/Banker. Maybe Narduzzi could teach it better than Banker, maybe Narduzzi's scheme struggles with these players.Regardless, this is the group of players we have. It's up to the coaches to figure out how to make it work with these guys. No way it's going to be acceptable by Husker Fans to give up 300 yards passing over and over and over.

Just looked up MSU 2007 numbers as that was Narduzzi's first year there. Gave up 250-350 yards to almost everyone the first part of the year. The outliers gave up a ton on the ground (maybe an adjustment that opened up rushing, maybe those teams couldn't pass. I didn't look that up). Maybe it takes awhile? I sure hope that is what's up.

I'd put our talent up against 2007 MSU in a heartbeat.

I want improvement as much as you, but teaching a technique has a lot less to do with physical talent and a lot more to do with repetition in several different scenarios. If you've every coached any sport you have noticed that.

We aren't doing well right now

I have coached sports, and I know to find out what my kids can do best, and gameplan around that.

Technique and game planning are two completely different things.

Not when you're trying to square peg-round hole it. You can want perfect technique all day long, but the fact is, you gotta be able to adjust.
If Bo's guys had played with better technique, we'd have had a better defense. It doesn't mean the scheme didn't suck.

True. Either way, we suck right now. I just hope it comes around like MSU did.

 

[adc7236]

I think there is some truth to it if he can't adjust. Have to have more answers in the secondary. Too simple, can't give up inside routes in obvious passing situations.

I am beating a dead horse with this quote, but here it is again......

“We could have rolled the corners up and played the safeties over the top, but in that game, it wasn’t about statistics,” Banker said of the South Alabama game. “It was about getting those guys ready to play those balls.”

Stewart hinted that NU does have fixes that it didn’t have to show against South Alabama.
“We were ahead by a few points,” Stewart said, “so there was no need in tipping our hand and showing them other things when we can just ride it out and get our guys to play 50-50 balls.” (for the record IIRC Davie was beat by USA 8 out of 11...not 50/50)

So Miami I expected some schematic changes. You know "play the safeties over the top" or see what "fixes" Stewart hinted at. Nope. Kaaya ate Davie alive and the board erupted about how bad Davie was..... Pointing out how many points he gave up............

Now in comes lowly Southern Miss. Any fixes? Any safeties over the top? Nope. JUST 447 friggin YARDS THROUGH THE AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We used Cockrell, Jones, Kalu, Rose and we still got schooled. A$$ kicked by a team that IIRC averaged 306 yards coming in......

ITS NOT THE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its the scheme and 4 games in, Stewart and Banker can't adjust. This is what we have until they are gone.

This crap about elite corners who can play on an Island..... Name me 10 in the NFL. Everyone loves the lock down corner, but they are few and far between. Even Seattle with Richard Sherman has a safety that rides the top. They bring one in the box to help the run and then one high to help the DB's.........

If we can't generate enough of a pass rush, then its the wrong friggin scheme. If we do not have elite corners, its a scheme issue. You continue to roll this sh!t show out week after week and call id a defense you are in denial......

Well said.

 

[Jeremy]

IMHO, having been to a game, I have seen first hand that we have speed all over the field. These kids look confused on most plays, and they really don't have any technique. Seriously - anyone who has experience in the game knows certain techniques for guarding receivers, and I really don't see anything resembling actual pass defense technique. Anyone been to a practice and see what they are coached to do? I'd really like to know what they're taught, because it appears the extent of their coaching is 'go cover that guy,' and 'tackle the guy with the ball.'

 

[lo country]

IMHO, having been to a game, I have seen first hand that we have speed all over the field. These kids look confused on most plays, and they really don't have any technique. Seriously - anyone who has experience in the game knows certain techniques for guarding receivers, and I really don't see anything resembling actual pass defense technique. Anyone been to a practice and see what they are coached to do? I'd really like to know what they're taught, because it appears the extent of their coaching is 'go cover that guy,' and 'tackle the guy with the ball.'

Paralysis by analysis...... Wasn't that the issue in other "system".

I agree we have speed. Reilly chased the guy down on the int if IIRC. The DB's seem to be able cover some ground as well.

 

[Count 'Bility]

IMHO, having been to a game, I have seen first hand that we have speed all over the field. These kids look confused on most plays, and they really don't have any technique. Seriously - anyone who has experience in the game knows certain techniques for guarding receivers, and I really don't see anything resembling actual pass defense technique. Anyone been to a practice and see what they are coached to do? I'd really like to know what they're taught, because it appears the extent of their coaching is 'go cover that guy,' and 'tackle the guy with the ball.'

thats how Marvin Sanders coached. He wasnt a big technique guy. It was a topic when Raymond came in in 2011. He was big on detailed technique and it slowed the guys down. ButSanders freed them up to play fast putting morestress on just getting there rather than how youget there
Now imnot an experton finite coverage technique soi really dont know what to look for. But id assume that different scheme requires different technique. Different eye placement. You gotta wonder about the system overhaul. Yhere isnt rxactly unlimited time with the players.

 

[Jeremy]

IMHO, having been to a game, I have seen first hand that we have speed all over the field. These kids look confused on most plays, and they really don't have any technique. Seriously - anyone who has experience in the game knows certain techniques for guarding receivers, and I really don't see anything resembling actual pass defense technique. Anyone been to a practice and see what they are coached to do? I'd really like to know what they're taught, because it appears the extent of their coaching is 'go cover that guy,' and 'tackle the guy with the ball.'

thats how Marvin Sanders coached. He wasnt a big technique guy. It was a topic when Raymond came in in 2011. He was big on detailed technique and it slowed the guys down. ButSanders freed them up to play fast putting morestress on just getting there rather than how youget there
Now imnot an experton finite coverage technique soi really dont know what to look for. But id assume that different scheme requires different technique. Different eye placement. You gotta wonder about the system overhaul. Yhere isnt rxactly unlimited time with the players.

I do agree that players can be over-coached. But at the same time, if I am as fast as the guy I'm guarding, how does he get past me 8 out of 11 times on go routes? Maybe my coach should tell me what to change so it doesn't happen any more? If I'm getting beat on slants over the middle, maybe my coach should tell me to align inside to jam the slant so I don't get beat over the middle on 4th down and look like an idiot chasing my guy as he scores? ( I also shouldn't spike the ball. Ever.)

 

[Count 'Bility]

IMHO, having been to a game, I have seen first hand that we have speed all over the field. These kids look confused on most plays, and they really don't have any technique. Seriously - anyone who has experience in the game knows certain techniques for guarding receivers, and I really don't see anything resembling actual pass defense technique. Anyone been to a practice and see what they are coached to do? I'd really like to know what they're taught, because it appears the extent of their coaching is 'go cover that guy,' and 'tackle the guy with the ball.'

thats how Marvin Sanders coached. He wasnt a big technique guy. It was a topic when Raymond came in in 2011. He was big on detailed technique and it slowed the guys down. ButSanders freed them up to play fast putting morestress on just getting there rather than how youget thereNow imnot an experton finite coverage technique soi really dont know what to look for. But id assume that different scheme requires different technique. Different eye placement. You gotta wonder about the system overhaul. Yhere isnt rxactly unlimited time with the players.

I do agree that players can be over-coached. But at the same time, if I am as fast as the guy I'm guarding, how does he get past me 8 out of 11 times on go routes? Maybe my coach should tell me what to change so it doesn't happen any more? If I'm getting beat on slants over the middle, maybe my coach should tell me to align inside to jam the slant so I don't get beat over the middle on 4th down and look like an idiot chasing my guy as he scores? ( I also shouldn't spike the ball. Ever.)

thats cool. Im not disagreeing. Just making a point that theres more than one way to skin the cat

 

[Saunders]

Bankers D is also Narduzzis D.

We'd be running this defense if Narduzzi was hired instead of Riley/Banker. Maybe Narduzzi could teach it better than Banker, maybe Narduzzi's scheme struggles with these players.Regardless, this is the group of players we have. It's up to the coaches to figure out how to make it work with these guys. No way it's going to be acceptable by Husker Fans to give up 300 yards passing over and over and over.

Just looked up MSU 2007 numbers as that was Narduzzi's first year there. Gave up 250-350 yards to almost everyone the first part of the year. The outliers gave up a ton on the ground (maybe an adjustment that opened up rushing, maybe those teams couldn't pass. I didn't look that up). Maybe it takes awhile? I sure hope that is what's up.

I'd put our talent up against 2007 MSU in a heartbeat.

I want improvement as much as you, but teaching a technique has a lot less to do with physical talent and a lot more to do with repetition in several different scenarios. If you've every coached any sport you have noticed that.

We aren't doing well right now

I have coached sports, and I know to find out what my kids can do best, and gameplan around that.

Technique and game planning are two completely different things.

Not when you're trying to square peg-round hole it. You can want perfect technique all day long, but the fact is, you gotta be able to adjust.
If Bo's guys had played with better technique, we'd have had a better defense. It doesn't mean the scheme didn't suck.

True. Either way, we suck right now. I just hope it comes around like MSU did.

Agreed!!!

 

[HuskersBeatIowa]

I listened to a bit of The Bottom Line radio show (Severe and Ganz) and Ganz said that Banker's D is basically Cosgrove's D. The schematics are exactly the same. If Cosgrove's D was out of date 8 years ago then what does that make Banker's D?

I know the concept is to make the offense one dimensional, but if it's so easy to pass against, then why would the offense do anything but line up in shotgun and run play action passes all day?

While Joe loves him some Joe and I question what he says, the results and the eye test seem to lend credence to his words.

Yeah, but don't you think Joe knows what he is seeing when he sees the defense? He only practiced against it for 4 years.
Joe knew today's defense as soon as they lined up. Banker needs to change something, and do it quick.

I'm not denying what he said. He also said that Rileys offense in very similar to Callahans.

I just remember what he said about Josh Freeman, and how that all proved to be untrue.

So if Severe would have said it, you would find the statement more credible? When it comes to X's and O's I would have to think Joe knows what he's talking about. Of course, he isn't some guy on here who is "breaking down the o-line play" from watching the game TV replay.

Ganz is acually extremely insightful and surprisingly very nutural. To prove that if you listen everyday, one thing Ganz consistently compliments is how they have improved Tommie under Langsdorf. Last year that was Ganz'job, and he wasn't very successful at it. So if he was reporting out of "spite" he wouldn't give that credit. Look at Damon Benning, we all highly respect his opinion because he was a former player. Imagine if he was on Bo's staff and had that attached to him, would that automatically make his opinion invalid? If you take anything Bishop or Peterson say seriously, you dam well better listen to Ganz.

 

[VectorVictor]

Frankly, the talent is there on defense. It's Banker's inability (or unwillingness?) to modify his defense to fit the players he has on the roster. Plus, if he's having problems coaching the D in the new scheme, and our offense is cruising along no problem with their new scheme...then yeah, that's on Banker. Apples and oranges, I know, but we should t be having fundamental breakdowns like this four games in if its a teaching problem.

If this piss-poor pass defense without adjusting is a running theme throughout the season...then I hope the boosters and AD can force Riley to jettison Banker somehow. I'd rather try our luck spinning the wheel of coaching again for a new DC than deal with this s******w years down the road, especially when we look like we have an offense that could win the B1G West. We've already done this before, and I'd rather we find out if Riley is going to force Banker's ineptitude on us, or if he'll do what is right for the program.

So...the question I have is...is it CosBank? BankGrove? CosKer? GroveKer? Just want to be ready for when we make the signs asking Riley to fire him later this season...

 

[lo country]

Here is another concern. I remember the talking heads talking about how important it was the first game (maybe first few) to have the new system, be successful. (I am assuming both O and D) This was needed to give the team confidence in the ability of Riley and Co. I wonder if the D, after getting torched for over 1500 yards through the air in 4 games is questioning the scheme on D and really doubting what the coaches are saying. Throw in quotes from Banker and Stewart and you have folks saying the "right" things, but having no way to fix.

Banker spoke preseason about using a safety in the box to help against the run and keeping one safety high. Who has been the other safety besides Gerry? Which one is in the box?

I didn't want to start a new thread, but was Gerry one of the guys that Riley said was sick? I hope so is that might have been his worst game as a Husker. He looked out of place. I hope that this new scheme hasn't effectively taken Gerry out of "position".