Poll: Abortion legality belief spectrum

[Big Red 40]

Liberals are wild. Kill all the babies you want, but don't dare wear hoop earrings or dreadlocks, you might offend a black man.

(This isn't really directed towards you).

I thought Ric Flair would run away with “the most ignorant post of the day” award .  You just denied him that honor . Congrats on the big win 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

I thought Ric Flair would run away with “the most ignorant post of the day” award .  You just denied him that honor . Congrats on the big win 

Lol. This guy....

My post was nothing if not accurate. 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

he likes hyperbole...or as i like to call it...hyperbull

What  is hyperbolic about that post exactly? I mean, it was direct.

Liberals are typically in favor of abortion, no? 

Liberals are also known to be up in arms if a white man chooses to take on characteristics of another culture... Or no?

I mean, one of those seems to be a crime  against humanity, while the other?.... It was simply an observation on how Liberals typically choose to allocate their sympathy, and energy.

 

[knapplc]

My post was nothing

Agreed.

Sad thing is, I kinda might agree with you on abortion.  "At some point it becomes murder" is true.  There's a point where that "thing" is a baby, and killing a baby is murder.  I don't know what that point is, and I'm willing to agree that abortion, at some point, is murder. 

Thing is, until society definitively proves when it's murder, it's a gray area.  And saying you know something about this subject is wrong. Saying you believe something about it is accurate.  It is the height of hubris to project your belief on someone else's free will. 

I have seen the wreckage of abortion first-hand.  I have seen how it can crush a person.  This isn't an exercise in hypotheticals for me, so don't pretend I don't have a stake in this discussion.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Agreed.

Sad thing is, I kinda might agree with you on abortion.  "At some point it becomes murder" is true.  There's a point where that "thing" is a baby, and killing a baby is murder.  I don't know what that point is, and I'm willing to agree that abortion, at some point, is murder. 

Thing is, until society definitively proves when it's murder, it's a gray area.  And saying you know something about this subject is wrong. Saying you believe something about it is accurate.  It is the height of hubris to project your belief on someone else's free will. 

I have seen the wreckage of abortion first-hand.  I have seen how it can crush a person.  This isn't an exercise in hypotheticals for me, so don't pretend I don't have a stake in this discussion.

I've been down that road myself, with the last girl I was with before my wife. So, I can certainly speak to the wreckage.

And I don't remember questioning whether you had a stake in the discussion.

 

[knapplc]

Just heading off the obvious beforehand.  With such gems as the "liberals" comments above, I was anticipating responses.

 

[Big Red 40]

I think the current laws on abortion will stay pretty much where they are at, like it or not . Small changes might be made but I doubt we’ll ever see it completely illegal or completely legal . 

Bold promises are good political strategy during election time, but bold actions to either extreme are political suicide . I just don’t see it happening . 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just heading off the obvious beforehand.  With such gems as the "liberals" comments above, I was anticipating responses.

Meh, may have gotten a little carried away with my initial post, but I stand by my comments on the unusual (to me) way liberals tend to allocate their sympathy. Especially with abortion. It just seems like something a majority of liberals would be against ( you know, killing the innocent).

 

[Making Chimichangas]

Meh, may have gotten a little carried away with my initial post, but I stand by my comments on the unusual (to me) way liberals tend to allocate their sympathy. Especially with abortion. It just seems like something a majority of liberals would be against ( you know, killing the innocent).

To my way of thinking, Republicans are wild on this issue.  They claim to care so much about an unborn child's life, but that "concern" completely stops when the baby is born.  Oh you need financial aid (welfare) to help cover the costs of providing for your baby?  Wait, so you want to use MY tax dollars to fund daycare for your kid?  You want me to pay more for MY health plan so the insurance company can cover your pre-natal and pregnancy monitoring doctors' visits?  Tough sh**, you're on your own.

Personally, I'd rather have abortions continue to be legal and safe (relatively speaking as any medical procedure has inherent risks) than outlaw them and create an unsafe, unsanitary, black-market for the procedure.  In a black market there is very much the possibility of women going to unqualified doctors and cheap opportunists in unlicensed, non-regulated clinics who are merely ooking to make money off of scared and vunerable women.

 

[Mierin]

I stand by my comments on the unusual (to me) way liberals tend to allocate their sympathy. Especially with abortion. It just seems like something a majority of liberals would be against ( you know, killing the innocent).

You keep doing this.

Democrats (a majority of them) don't think abortion is killing a human. Sympathy has nothing to do with it. If you want to hate Democrats for allowing murder due to what you think is ignorance, fine. But commenting that they're not allowed to care about anyone/anything because they think fetuses aren't humans seems like a waste of time.

 

[Landlord]

Liberals are wild. Kill all the babies you want, but don't dare wear hoop earrings or dreadlocks, you might offend a black man.

'Liberals' don't believe that the thing being described is the killing of babies. It doesn't really work to take your perspective on a complex and grey issue and apply it to someone you disagree with who doesn't even share your perspective. Go up to a liberal and say, 'Hey, do you support murdering babies?' and they'll obviously say, 'No, of course I don't."

Liberals are typically in favor of abortion, no? 

Actually, no. 'Liberals' are in favor of the choice of a woman to have autonomy over her body. Almost everyone, including liberals, is not in favor of abortions. They're traumatic, they can lead to serious health problems, and the overwhelming majority of people would love to see fewer and fewer abortions. 

It just seems like something a majority of liberals would be against ( you know, killing the innocent).

Again, if they believed that it was killing the innocent, they would be against that, but they don't believe that's what it is. Idk if this is ego grandstanding or what, but do you really believe that almost half of Americans are cool with murdering children? You would bet that tens/hundreds of millions of people are fine with that concept? Get real, man.

You said that at some point it becomes murder. I agree with you. The real tricky part is, what's the point? You even took the spiritual equation out of it - that's good, because that's necessary for legislature. So, is a morning after pill murder? I think anything past 21-22 weeks is, personally, but that's a long gap in between those two - when is it murder? 

 

[jsneb83]

Whether I believe abortions are wrong or not, it is not my place to judge the woman. That is between her and God, not me. Banning abortions will not stop abortions from happening. Instead, as a society, we should be taking measures so that abortions are only used for serious cases, ie rape/incest, health of mother/fetus.

 

[NM11046]

Whether I believe abortions are wrong or not, it is not my place to judge the woman. That is between her and God, not me. Banning abortions will not stop abortions from happening. Instead, as a society, we should be taking measures so that abortions are only used for serious cases, ie rape/incest, health of mother/fetus.

I was with you until you said society had to take measures ...  if you dont judge isnt that in conflict with the later?

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

'Liberals' don't believe that the thing being described is the killing of babies. It doesn't really work to take your perspective on a complex and grey issue and apply it to someone you disagree with who doesn't even share your perspective. Go up to a liberal and say, 'Hey, do you support murdering babies?' and they'll obviously say, 'No, of course I don't."

Actually, no. 'Liberals' are in favor of the choice of a woman to have autonomy over her body. Almost everyone, including liberals, is not in favor of abortions. They're traumatic, they can lead to serious health problems, and the overwhelming majority of people would love to see fewer and fewer abortions. 

Again, if they believed that it was killing the innocent, they would be against that, but they don't believe that's what it is. Idk if this is ego grandstanding or what, but do you really believe that almost half of Americans are cool with murdering children? You would bet that tens/hundreds of millions of people are fine with that concept? Get real, man.

You said that at some point it becomes murder. I agree with you. The real tricky part is, what's the point? You even took the spiritual equation out of it - that's good, because that's necessary for legislature. So, is a morning after pill murder? I think anything past 21-22 weeks is, personally, but that's a long gap in between those two - when is it murder? 

Sigh... you always come in when I'm exhausted of the subject.

All I'll say is, Google pictures of a baby aborted at even 6 weeks.... That's a person. I've got three kids, (and as I hinted at earlier in my exchange with Knapp, I should have four) so  I've been to plenty ultrasounds. They'll let you listen to the heartbeat at 4 weeks. The heartbeat.... Its alive. You can find out the sex at 14-16 weeks.... So 21-22 weeks is insane. So, given what I just said, when you ask if I think millions of people are ok with murdering babies? Yes, I do.

But, I'm done with the conversation. I tread into this forum from time to time, but it's exhausting trying to take on a dozen of you. I respect most of you, but I'm checking out for now.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

 we should be taking measures so that abortions are only used for serious cases, ie rape/incest, health of mother/fetus.

For the record, I have always been completely onboard with this. We haven't discussed much of the poll in this thread, but I voted option 4.