Post Minnesota Game Thoughts/Rest of the season

[Husker in WI]

I posted last year about his alignment on defense and it's still the same today. Minnesota looked to the sidelines every pre snap and then adjusted if they needed to. It was child's play 

You could see their play action coming too, it was just textbook. Like none of the pass calls were unexpected, but we were selling out to stop the run so it didn't matter. We made their OCs job super easy - they'd be running it well, and right when you think "they could kill us with a shot" that's exactly what they did.

 

[spurs1990]

I didn't read any of this. I'm lazy. My thoughts are a successful season would be beat 2/3 between Maryland, Indiana, and Purdue some how and get to a bowl. Compete in the bowl without embarrassment and call it an improvement. 

Unfortunately Iowa and Wisconsin seem like risks for the NCAA record books again.

In the end, find a way to get to a bowl. That's the bottom line for me.

 

[Husker in WI]

show me where i said martinez' problems have nothing to do with the o-line.

disagree all you want, but giving up the most fumbles in the FBS has absolutely nothing to do with the o-line. it takes one player to hold on to the ball. not 6. and most of the fumbles are NOT sack-fumbles either. both quarterbacks have issues being created for them by the o-line. one of them, who is definitely more talented, has compounded issues and made things worse with his decision making and how he handles the ball. the other quarterback hasn't.

that's fact.

in games that martinez had decent snaps, he still made poor decisions. 

Martinez has turned the ball overmore than any other Division 1 player this season. that has nothing to do with the o-line. vedral in this game was definitely limited by the o-line. but when there were no penalties or whiffed blocks, he made plays. thats more than we can say for martinez.

I get your opinion, I just disagree. And there are inconsistencies in using phrases like "absolutely nothing to do with," and then saying only "most" of the issue aren't on the line. Is it absolutely nothing or is it some of the time, it can't be both.

And I just disagree in general, but that's subjective. He needs better ball security for sure, but several of the fumbles have been affected by the line. His turnovers since Illinois:

1) Illinois fumbled read option. Seems like he tried to give and the back had already given up. Hard to assign blame here, although the entire play was blown up -probably why the back assumed he wasn't getting the ball. He was the right read, but had no room anyway. Either way partially on Martinez and on the back, but I would argue the line is partially to blame as well.

2) Sack Fumble! Surprise!

3) INT #1 against OSU - heck of a play by the defender, and Wan'dale needed to stay flat to no be undercut. Partially Martinez, and since he was flushed from the pocket almost before he caught the snap I give some blame to the line.

4) INT #2 against OSU - not a good throw, but freakishly weird that it was picked anyway. Also had Farniok in his lap, so partially on the line. If he can step into that throw, it's a TD.

5) INT #3 - entirely on Martinez.

So at least 3 (and I would argue 4) of the last 5 had the line at least contributing.

 

[Archy1221]

If they need him again...it is a bad thing.

INT#1 had zero to do with the offensive line.  Just cause your flushed didn’t mean you have to throw a bad pass.   He could have done anything but what he did and then Nebraska punts and moves on.  

INT#2 was a bad pass, great interception and not much to do with the offensive line

 

[thatguy]

I get your opinion, I just disagree. And there are inconsistencies in using phrases like "absolutely nothing to do with," and then saying only "most" of the issue aren't on the line. Is it absolutely nothing or is it some of the time, it can't be both.

And I just disagree in general, but that's subjective. He needs better ball security for sure, but several of the fumbles have been affected by the line. His turnovers since Illinois:

1) Illinois fumbled read option. Seems like he tried to give and the back had already given up. Hard to assign blame here, although the entire play was blown up -probably why the back assumed he wasn't getting the ball. He was the right read, but had no room anyway. Either way partially on Martinez and on the back, but I would argue the line is partially to blame as well.

2) Sack Fumble! Surprise!

3) INT #1 against OSU - heck of a play by the defender, and Wan'dale needed to stay flat to no be undercut. Partially Martinez, and since he was flushed from the pocket almost before he caught the snap I give some blame to the line.

4) INT #2 against OSU - not a good throw, but freakishly weird that it was picked anyway. Also had Farniok in his lap, so partially on the line. If he can step into that throw, it's a TD.

5) INT #3 - entirely on Martinez.

So at least 3 (and I would argue 4) of the last 5 had the line at least contributing.

put those phrases in context. they are only inconsistent if you are trying to make false arguments.

the first one, "absolutely nothing to do with..." is referring to the property of giving up the most fumbles, and not referring to every single individual fumble. "most" then points specifically to the individual fumbles. apples vs the orchard. forest vs trees. 

you can disagree all you want, but don't take my posts out of context. nowhere in my posts did i point to any interception. 

 

[Husker in WI]

INT#1 had zero to do with the offensive line.  Just cause your flushed didn’t mean you have to throw a bad pass.   He could have done anything but what he did and then Nebraska punts and moves on.  

INT#2 was a bad pass, great interception and not much to do with the offensive line

I don't think the line was the biggest factor for #1, and I get not counting it. But it immediately broke the play and turned it into everyone running toward the sideline. Martinez gets most of the blame for sure, a chunk for WanDale's route and for me, a piece for the line. 

If you don't think Farniok affected the throw on #2 I can't help you. 

 

[Huskers93-97]

I think we still finish 6-6, maybe 7-5 if things REALLY fall into place.  But no, I haven't seen anything up to this point that really shows a big improvement.  If anything I'm really let down on the steps backwards.

I agree. I am pretty disappointed all around. I know the team is flawed and has issues. But the talk of Frost being a transcendent coach gave great hype that he could get you competing at least with lesser talent. I didnt expect conference or natty talk until 5 years down the line when he has a roster full of his talent. 

But I did expect an immediate turnaround so we would not see performances like Minnesota ever again.

 

[Husker in WI]

put those phrases in context. they are only inconsistent if you are trying to make false arguments.

the first one, "absolutely nothing to do with..." is referring to the property of giving up the most fumbles, and not referring to every single individual fumble. "most" then points specifically to the individual fumbles. apples vs the orchard. forest vs trees. 

you can disagree all you want, but don't take my posts out of context. nowhere in my posts did i point to any interception. 

You're right, your second post is specific to fumbles. Which he has done twice since Illinois, and one was on the line. 

Your initial post said:

Martinez has turned the ball overmore than any other Division 1 player this season. that has nothing to do with the o-line. 

Don't see anything eliminating the INTs there. 

I guess my point is he has largely cleaned up the carrying the ball loosely fumbles since Colorado. And I believe the line is partially responsible for a lot of his turnovers in general. We can disagree on how much. 

 

[BIG ERN]

We have had 0 turnovers the last 2 games and have a combined 20 points. Of course not turning it over is great, but so is making plays to be able to score. 

 

[thatguy]

You're right, your second post is specific to fumbles. Which he has done twice since Illinois, and one was on the line. 

Your initial post said:

Martinez has turned the ball overmore than any other Division 1 player this season. that has nothing to do with the o-line. 

Don't see anything eliminating the INTs there. 

I guess my point is he has largely cleaned up the carrying the ball loosely fumbles since Colorado. And I believe the line is partially responsible for a lot of his turnovers in general. We can disagree on how much. 

so your whole argument against my orchard argument is to point to a few low-hanging apples? 

ok. keep in mind, you have shifted the goalposts twice now in your responses to me. as is the case when talking about the program, no matter the coach, you will always find those who will defend anything and everything, no matter what facts may be available.

 

[Husker in WI]

so your whole argument against my orchard argument is to point to a few low-hanging apples? 

ok. keep in mind, you have shifted the goalposts twice now in your responses to me. as is the case when talking about the program, no matter the coach, you will always find those who will defend anything and everything, no matter what facts may be available.

I am weighing the recent turnovers more heavily because the team has made progress since the first games. Obviously not as much as we'd like. The "few low hanging apples" happen to be the only apples because we're talking about 5 turnovers, or if you are only talking about fumbles we're down to 2.

I've shifted my arguments because it went from "Martinez has the most turnovers" to "Martinez fumbles too much" to "I was speaking generally, you're missing the orchard for the apples. The "orchard" of fumbles in the past 4 games is literally 2 fumbles against Illinois. Not sure where else I'm supposed to focus. I will grant you against USA and Colorado Martinez was too fumble prone, I am and have been arguing he has fixed that for the most part.

I'm going to be a little pedantic here:

put those phrases in context. they are only inconsistent if you are trying to make false arguments.

the first one, "absolutely nothing to do with..." is referring to the property of giving up the most fumbles, and not referring to every single individual fumble. "most" then points specifically to the individual fumbles. apples vs the orchard. forest vs trees.

You cannot use an absolute (funnily enough the absolute you used "absolutely") if you're excluding specific cases. It is an absolute, by definition it encompasses all of the specific cases. "Absolutely nothing" does refer to every single individual fumble because it is an absolute, you've left no room to say "except for these ones." If you'd said "almost nothing to do with" I would have no issue with your argument, I would just disagree. But you can't argue an absolute and then claim it wasn't intended to refer to every case. I'm being pedantic sure, but words do matter.

 

[Slow yer Roll]

Who is screening these calls?

 

[Sker fer life]

Losing a football game is one thing,  not being able to field a team to COMPETE with teams like minny ,  or any team really,  is another.   This team has all kinds of issues,   O-line being the obvious one.   Until we get bigger ,  stronger,  smarter horses up front on both sides of the ball, competing in the big ten will be rough.   Two more recruiting cycles and we'll see where we're at.  I'll wait. GBR.

 

[Mavric]

Kade Warner needs to start over Noa. Move Washington to slot WR. Burn Johnson’s shirt. Instant upgrade. 

I knew Warner had been hurt but I didn't know what the story was.  

Apparently he developed a stress fracture in fall camp and then - about the time that was healed - pulled a hamstring.  That lingered for some time.  Just finally getting back up to speed.

I agree that he needs to be in there instead of Noa.

 

[everybody knows my name]

No one on this board is calling for Frost’s head...No one...however, Frost must soon realize that he and his team of coaches do not have the full respect of this team because instead of coaching these players and exercising some tough love...they choose to pamper them and let them feel like there are no consequences for their stupid actions. Why else would Khalil Davis continue to commit stupid undisciplined unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. Our OL is overwhelmed against any team with a pulse. So, two years in, what exactly have these coaches who are being paid VERY GENEROUSLY accomplished...we are still getting blown out by supposedly inferior teams. 

I didn't say don't call for Frost's head.  I said don't get down on him.