The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

BlitzFirst said:
I'm certain that it takes more than a few weeks to investigate sexual assault allegations.  You're welcome to disagree.  I agree to disagree on this notion.
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You are certain...based on what? Given more time, what else can be dug up that has not already been made available? What else can be done that has not been done? How much time do you need, and what else is there to be investigated?

Indeed, complex investigations take time. But when there is no more evidence to collect, and the outcome is unsatisfying (which happens a lot), continuing to beat the drum about it accomplishes nothing. 

Take this article, for example, it just popped up in my email a few moments ago: https://news.yahoo.com/tara-reade-joe-biden-sexual-assault-allegation-205643745.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_04

It says there have been a couple of corroborating accounts, as reported by an investigative journalist. Some very interesting info that you and I would both agree is important. But then what else can you do with it? There are important facts that are still unknown, yes? The AP interviewed 21 former Biden staffers. Do you need a few more weeks to find the 22nd staffer who is suddenly going to provide the smoking gun?

Investigative journalists have taken a crack at this, which is what you wanted. You don't know the efforts that have been taken to find the truth, all you know is that the results have been unsatisfying. There has been a lot of interesting info, but not enough to actually do anything with. Sometimes investigations reach a dead end. Investigators have to deal with that. So should you.

 
RedDenver said:
From the article:
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Yeah, I read that. Still doesn't answer:  Where was this person 25 years ago? Or in 2008? Or 2012? Or last year when Reade started talking to the press for the first time?

That she's only now coming out with this after Reade's latest version is concerning.  Because either Reade obfuscated the truth in every interview she gave from 4/2019 through last month or this woman is misremembering something she was told 25 years ago.

If this was Reade's truth, why not come out with that in her interview with The Union? Because clearly, according to this woman, she was telling people that truth 25 years ago.

Where was that truth in 2008? Or 2012?  Why is Reade NOW fine with disclosing everything that happened, but wasn't a year ago?

Frankly, that creates more questions than it answers.

 
 People need to stop thinking that journalists know how to investigate stuff...look...if only a few people know about "it" the investigation is really hard to do.

Also...think back 25 years ago today...so 1995, April 30th, tell me everything you did that day, including what you were wearing.  

Oh...and tell it in chronological order and oh yeah, don't change any details.  Who wants to go first?

 
I don't think you can dismiss either side at this point. It could have happened, it might not have happened, it will be almost impossible to move past assumptions. This is the crux for me. I don't see how Biden is proven guilty, at the same time, it's pretty much impossible for Biden to prove his innocence. 

"Reade has said that she cannot remember the date, time or exact location of the alleged assault, except that it occurred in a “semiprivate” area in corridors connecting Senate buildings. After I left the Justice Department, I was appointed by the federal court in Los Angeles to represent indigent defendants. The first thing that comes to mind from my defense attorney perspective is that Reade’s amnesia about specifics makes it impossible for Biden to go through records and prove he could not have committed the assault, because he was somewhere else at the time. 
For instance, if Reade alleged Biden assaulted her on the afternoon of June 3, 1993, Biden might be able to prove he was on the Senate floor or at the dentist. Her memory lapses could easily be perceived as bulletproofing a false allegation."
 
Okay, this new info that is coming out now in the Yahoo article that I posted, and the article that Red Denver posted - contains new stuff that should be scrutinized. If there is new evidence, follow it. It raises more questions, keep going.

To @BlitzFirst's point, these things can take a long time to arrive at the truth, but maybe you never get to the truth either. That is a realistic possibility. But if you have no idea how these kinds of investigations work, and if you don't know what the investigators are already doing or have done, then you are just pissing in the wind.

FrantzHardySwag said:
I don't think you can dismiss either side at this point. It could have happened, it might not have happened, it will be almost impossible to move past assumptions. This is the crux for me. I don't see how Biden is proven guilty, at the same time, it's pretty much impossible for Biden to prove his innocence. 
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This is it right there. To what end is this going? There will be no definitive guilt or definitive exoneration from any of this. Reade should be afforded all of the support and resources that are available to her if she has been victimized. But at the end of this all, the country has to make a choice between Trump and Biden. One of the two is clearly more immoral, disgusting, dishonest, unqualified, and slimy than the other.

 
knapplc said:
Yeah, I read that. Still doesn't answer:  Where was this person 25 years ago? Or in 2008? Or 2012? Or last year when Reade started talking to the press for the first time?

That she's only now coming out with this after Reade's latest version is concerning.  Because either Reade obfuscated the truth in every interview she gave from 4/2019 through last month or this woman is misremembering something she was told 25 years ago.

If this was Reade's truth, why not come out with that in her interview with The Union? Because clearly, according to this woman, she was telling people that truth 25 years ago.

Where was that truth in 2008? Or 2012?  Why is Reade NOW fine with disclosing everything that happened, but wasn't a year ago?

Frankly, that creates more questions than it answers.
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Reade gets asked about her changing story in the interviews that have been done with her. Also, it's VERY common for sexual assault victims to have their story change or be unable to recall certain details. It doesn't mean Reade is telling the truth, but it does explain why she could be telling the truth.

Why sexual assault survivors forget details

Many people who have been raped or sexually assaulted often claim to have vivid memories of certain images, sounds and smells associated with the attack – even if happened decades earlier. Yet when asked to recall exactly what time of day it was, or who and what was where at any given time – the kinds of details police and prosecutors often focus on to establish the facts of a crime – they may struggle or contradict themselves, undermining their testimony.

“There is this tragic discrepancy between what is expected within the criminal justice system and the nature of trauma memories and how people are likely to be reporting them,” says Amy Hardy, a clinical psychologist at Kings College London.

This is because memories of traumatic events are laid down differently to everyday memories. Usually we encode what we see, hear, smell, taste and physically sense, as well as how that all slots together and what it means to us – and together, those different types of information together enable us to recall events as a coherent story. But during traumatic events our bodies are flooded with stress hormones. These encourage the brain to focus on the here and now, at the expense of the bigger picture.

This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. “When we are under threat, it is much better that we focus on what we are experiencing, which triggers us into fight, flight or freeze-type responses, than to focus on the bigger meaning and making sense of it,” says Hardy. “We also know that if people dissociate during trauma – where the cognitive part of the brain shuts down and they go a bit spacey or numb – it exaggerates this fragmentation process, so their memories have an even more here-and-now-type quality.”

Hardy has examined the impact of these memory processes on survivors’ experience of reporting sexual assault to the police. She found that those who reported higher levels of dissociation during the assault perceived their memories to be more fragmented when interviewed by police and that those with greater levels of memory fragmentation were more likely to feel that they had given an incoherent account of what happened. And these factors, in turn, left them less likely to proceed with the legal case. 
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As for the neighbor who is confirming her story, she says that all the people calling Reade's credibility into question is what brought her out.

 
RedDenver said:
Reade gets asked about her changing story in the interviews that have been done with her. Also, it's VERY common for sexual assault victims to have their story change or be unable to recall certain details. It doesn't mean Reade is telling the truth, but it does explain why she could be telling the truth.

Why sexual assault survivors forget details

As for the neighbor who is confirming her story, she says that all the people calling Reade's credibility into question is what brought her out.
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But, again, if Reade was willing to tell this story unprompted 25 years ago, why not tell it in any of the interviews she did before a month ago?  That's not explained away by her being a sexual assault survivor. These memories were available to her then, but not when she reached out to the press to tell this story? But now they are again?

Occam's Razor has to be applied at some point.

 
:snacks:   Maybe we should have started a thread just about Biden sexual assault allegations.  :dunno  

Just checking this out today - got to get back to work.   :include    Carry on.

My take,  it is going to come down to a he said she said.  Nothing can be proven by something that old.  Biden has always been a 'hands on' guy - I would not be surprised if something happen.  But this old story, at this late, important date in time, with inconsistencies don't aid to the story's credibility.  As @KnappIc  notes above, there comes a time when you have to apply Occam's Razor. 

 
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No one taking the 25 year challenge?

April 30th 1995...In chronological order tell us everything you did and said...and what you were wearing.

I am pretty sure I had a Frat sweatshirt on...but that is all I can remember.

 
BlitzFirst said:
This isn't a robot Knapp.  This is a person who suffered Trauma. 

There are types of Trauma and PTSD that defy all logical behavior such as delayed onset PTSD that can be triggered DECADES after a Trauma occurs and can unleash memories that have been suppressed for just as long.

Any of the above could be why.

Wanting her to be perfect with perfect recall and follow an ordered, logical string of behavior is really ignorant to sexual assault survivors and people who experience trauma.
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Please stop insinuating I'm unaware of sexual trauma, or sexual assault survivors, or "ignorant." Please discuss the post, not the poster.

 
BlitzFirst said:
This isn't a robot Knapp.  This is a person who suffered Trauma. 

There are types of Trauma and PTSD that defy all logical behavior such as delayed onset PTSD that can be triggered DECADES after a Trauma occurs and can unleash memories that have been suppressed for just as long.

Any of the above could be why.

Wanting her to be perfect with perfect recall and follow an ordered, logical string of behavior is really ignorant to sexual assault survivors and people who experience trauma.
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This is all correct. There is a lot about all of this case that is unknown and unprovable. Questioning her credibility should not be taken as an attack against survivors of sexual assault. I know that knapp is not unreasonable and supports equality.

I also don't want to be unreasonable. So as I step back, I should say that I don't think any investigation should be prematurely ended, and we should never hide from the truth. Sexual assault victims should be believed, allegations should be taken seriously. This stuff is important. I believe in the #metoo movement. I believe in safety and support for victims. 

Unfortunately, I also know that the country is in grave danger every moment that Trump is president. In the big picture, it is an obvious priority that he needs to be voted out. I really, really wish Biden wasn't the D choice. A vote for Biden does not mean that we should not take sexual assault seriously, but it would be indescribably tragic for all of us, and that certainly includes a setback for #metoo, equality, Title IX, and any other noble cause you can think of, if Trump were re-elected. Trump threatens all of those things moreso than Biden.

You know that this case will not ever possibly result in a criminal conviction for Biden, right? You know that Sanders is simply not going to be the nominee at this point, right? You agree that Trump is a horrible disaster, right? It sucks to be in this position and to even have this conversation, right? 

Reade herself is not even pushing for Biden to be convicted, as far as I know. The neighbor who came out with the corroborating statement is still voting for Biden. Nothing good will come of this. The best solution is to get Trump and the GOP out of power and hope that the Dems will push for policies that will be supportive of victims and try to swing the pendulum back to where civil rights are valued.

The bottom line is twofold: the Reade investigation, no matter how long it takes, is not going to result in any meaningful conclusion, and Trump needs to be removed. 

 
Who would even conduct an investigation?  The police won't because the statute has run out. Blitz doesn't trust the press to do it, so who does that leave?

 
BlitzFirst said:
This isn't a robot Knapp.  This is a person who suffered Trauma. 

There are types of Trauma and PTSD that defy all logical behavior such as delayed onset PTSD that can be triggered DECADES after a Trauma occurs and can unleash memories that have been suppressed for just as long.

Any of the above could be why.

Wanting her to be perfect with perfect recall and follow an ordered, logical string of behavior is really ignorant to sexual assault survivors and people who experience trauma.
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RobotKnapp!  Haha

 
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