Racism - It's a real thing.

Enhance said:
I've been seeing a lot of people describe this situation as "it's a he said he said, but why would Flores lie?" I think the insinuation there is that we should believe Flores is telling the truth given the nature of the accusations. That's a bit of a dangerous assertion to make no matter what your perspective is.

I can't say whether Flores or any of the people he accused in his lawsuit are telling the truth or lying. There's certainly quite a bit of evidence to suggest foul play, but there are also several things outlined in the lawsuit that he just flat out won't be able to prove... like John Elway being "hungover" and disheveled when they interviewed. Elway has denied it, giving some passing excuse that he was running on little sleep after traveling all night, but was still prepared and engaged for the 3 1/2 hours they spent together... something you probably don't do if you're not seriously considering hiring someone. But again, how does one prove any of that?

I don't think Flores is lying about how he feels - that much I feel confident about. But, it's equally possible he is seeing some things he wants to see in order to try and understand why certain things happened to him. A court may end up finding out that yes... it was because of racism that he was treated that way. A court might also decide that there isn't enough evidence to prove race had anything to do with anything. That's why I often try to withhold and judgement one way or the other in these types of things.

I will say that I'm still very surprised he was fired this past season based purely on team performance. I think one thing this lawsuit does shed some light on is that ownership clearly must've had some ulterior motives for his firing because the record didn't really warrant it.
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He was 24-25 in three seasons, with zero playoff appearances. I suppose you could make a case for him keeping his job, but it also shouldn't be that surprising that he was fired. Nagy went 34-32 with the Bears, and I don't see anyone rushing to his defense. Zimmer was 72-56 with the Vikings. It's fairly clear why people are upset that he was fired. My biggest issue with Flores is the way he's going about throwing people under the bus.... He did Belichick and Elway pretty dirty. The same with the Giants. If you don't want people to give token interviews to minority candidates, don't require them to give those interviews. If an organization has their guy lined up, it's a waste of everyone's time.

Also, it looks like Hue Jackson is wanting to join the lawsuit? That's hilarious.

 
B.B. Hemingway said:
He was 24-25 in three seasons, with zero playoff appearances. I suppose you could make a case for him keeping his job, but it also shouldn't be that surprising that he was fired. Nagy went 34-32 with the Bears, and I don't see anyone rushing to his defense. Zimmer was 72-56 with the Vikings. It's fairly clear why people are upset that he was fired. My biggest issue with Flores is the way he's going about throwing people under the bus.... He did Belichick and Elway pretty dirty. The same with the Giants. If you don't want people to give token interviews to minority candidates, don't require them to give those interviews. If an organization has their guy lined up, it's a waste of everyone's time.

Also, it looks like Hue Jackson is wanting to join the lawsuit? That's hilarious.
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And the Broncos had just hired a minority candidate previously 

 
Enhance said:
I've been seeing a lot of people describe this situation as "it's a he said he said, but why would Flores lie?" I think the insinuation there is that we should believe Flores is telling the truth given the nature of the accusations. That's a bit of a dangerous assertion to make no matter what your perspective is.

I can't say whether Flores or any of the people he accused in his lawsuit are telling the truth or lying. There's certainly quite a bit of evidence to suggest foul play, but there are also several things outlined in the lawsuit that he just flat out won't be able to prove... like John Elway being "hungover" and disheveled when they interviewed. Elway has denied it, giving some passing excuse that he was running on little sleep after traveling all night, but was still prepared and engaged for the 3 1/2 hours they spent together... something you probably don't do if you're not seriously considering hiring someone. But again, how does one prove any of that?

I don't think Flores is lying about how he feels - that much I feel confident about. But, it's equally possible he is seeing some things he wants to see in order to try and understand why certain things happened to him. A court may end up finding out that yes... it was because of racism that he was treated that way. A court might also decide that there isn't enough evidence to prove race had anything to do with anything. That's why I often try to withhold and judgement one way or the other in these types of things.

I will say that I'm still very surprised he was fired this past season based purely on team performance. I think one thing this lawsuit does shed some light on is that ownership clearly must've had some ulterior motives for his firing because the record didn't really warrant it.
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I am disappointed when a man says he is humbled and thankful for an opportunity the day he gets hired, but files a class-action federal lawsuit on behalf of systemic-racism, once he gets terminated.  The narrative wasn't there when he got hired, or while he was on the job.

I am unaware of any incidents in word or deed that indicates racism was a factor in the Flores dismissal. 

When Flores was hired, in his press conference he said ""part of leadership is dealing with adversity and overcoming it". 

I think Flores would get re-hired in the league by another team needing a position coach (DC mainly) had he not filed the suit.  But now, not so much.

It has been documented that he had relationship issues as a head coach, didn't support his QB (Tua), hired 4 OC's and OL coaches in 3 years, recruited Deshawn Watson (who was going through multiple sexual lawsuits against him), and that Tom Brady wanted to be a Dolphin prior to signing with Tampa, but wouldn't sign there because of Flores. 

I think he was an average first time coach hovering around .500, and I didn't see a Super Bowl type of coach.  Going 1-7 at the beginning of this year did not help.  The turnaround was nice, but it felt like it was a little too late imo.   

 
ColoradoHusk said:
I know I shouldn't use Facebook as the barometer for the average person, but it was pretty despicable to see the outrage and comments from Facebook Karens and Carls over the NU basketball uniforms which are paying tribute to Black History Month.
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Really? Wow, they're nuts.  Those uni's are a thing of beauty

 
Enhance said:
I've been seeing a lot of people describe this situation as "it's a he said he said, but why would Flores lie?" I think the insinuation there is that we should believe Flores is telling the truth given the nature of the accusations. That's a bit of a dangerous assertion to make no matter what your perspective is.

I can't say whether Flores or any of the people he accused in his lawsuit are telling the truth or lying. There's certainly quite a bit of evidence to suggest foul play, but there are also several things outlined in the lawsuit that he just flat out won't be able to prove... like John Elway being "hungover" and disheveled when they interviewed. Elway has denied it, giving some passing excuse that he was running on little sleep after traveling all night, but was still prepared and engaged for the 3 1/2 hours they spent together... something you probably don't do if you're not seriously considering hiring someone. But again, how does one prove any of that?

I don't think Flores is lying about how he feels - that much I feel confident about. But, it's equally possible he is seeing some things he wants to see in order to try and understand why certain things happened to him. A court may end up finding out that yes... it was because of racism that he was treated that way. A court might also decide that there isn't enough evidence to prove race had anything to do with anything. That's why I often try to withhold and judgement one way or the other in these types of things.

I will say that I'm still very surprised he was fired this past season based purely on team performance. I think one thing this lawsuit does shed some light on is that ownership clearly must've had some ulterior motives for his firing because the record didn't really warrant it.
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I agree with most of this and I am a little suspicious of Miami’s motives but I have absolutely no outrage over the Bronco’s situation. I really don’t think it involved racism. Wasn’t Vance Joseph their coach before Fangio?  I don’t think any NFL team is operating smartly or in their best interest if they discriminate against black people or any race for that matter. 

As far as the disheveled hair etc.   Elway looks disheveled pretty much all the time and who cares? It’s a privately owned multimillion dollar business, they can hire whoever they want and their executives can look how they want, and even be hungover. Elway has proven to be not the best GM so it’s not surprising but to make the jump to racism…

If the league wants to control what teams do to a larger degree, maybe the NFL should be the ones paying the coaches.

I thought Flores did okay by Miami standards but they’re sure free to make any changes they want. Coaches with better records have been let go elsewhere. His allegations may be right but it looks to me like sour grapes over his stint in Miami and he chose to lash out at a couple others in the process.  It’s unfortunate that this will follow him to any possible future NFL employment.

 
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