O-line

[Enhance]

Garrison helps Cotton and handles TEs, i think Stai is an intern and helps along the line.

???

?????????Please explain.

What needs explaining, exactly?

 

[zoogs]

Some people have said "Oh, we didn't need a tackle" after losing Peat. I don't know - we lost two starters to graduation. Moore is a stud, probably starter material and I don't remember how much he started last year. Sirles has been OK. But that's two tackles. Behind them, is what?

Really hope some of the young guys are ready to step up. And that we don't get any OT injuries this season, because it looks pretty thin and unproven to me now.

 

[walksalone]

If you've got a really good OLine, you can do about whatever you want with the other six guys on the field.

Exactly. Great line play makes up for a lot of deficiencies at other positions. So goes the offensive line, so goes the team.

I pose a few of questions, though. First, with the amount of talent coming back this year, what should we expect? In conjunction, what should we expect in 2013, and what kind of standards do we hold Cotton to during that time?

Second, I thought the line played better this year than they did in '09 and '10, but do we attribute that to the new coaches helping out, the talent or Cotton?

Third, if we do not have a consistently above average line by the end of next year, is it time for Cotton to go, or does he deserve 2013 with the vasts amount of talent we will have returning? This, of course, is given that everything stays the same and players don't leave.

Not only true on the offensive side of the ball. But I think that the O line will play a large part in how effect T-mart is...

 

[Enhance]

Some people have said "Oh, we didn't need a tackle" after losing Peat. I don't know - we lost two starters to graduation. Moore is a stud, probably starter material and I don't remember how much he started last year. Sirles has been OK. But that's two tackles. Behind them, is what?

Really hope some of the young guys are ready to step up. And that we don't get any OT injuries this season, because it looks pretty thin and unproven to me now.

I think Moore started up through Wisconsin, and then his playing time started to taper off. I don't remember the exact time tables, but I'm also positive he was our start through non conference play and into the season.

Not only true on the offensive side of the ball. But I think that the O line will play a large part in how effect T-mart is...

I agree with that. A solid offensive line that opens holes in the running game and provides solid pass protection can do wonders for not only a quarterback's abilities, but his confidence.

 

[walksalone]

Not only true on the offensive side of the ball. But I think that the O line will play a large part in how effect T-mart is...

I agree with that. A solid offensive line that opens holes in the running game and provides solid pass protection can do wonders for not only a quarterback's abilities, but his confidence.

I think his confidence is a bigger deal than we might make it out to be....

 

[Enhance]

Not only true on the offensive side of the ball. But I think that the O line will play a large part in how effect T-mart is...

I agree with that. A solid offensive line that opens holes in the running game and provides solid pass protection can do wonders for not only a quarterback's abilities, but his confidence.

I think his confidence is a bigger deal than we might make it out to be....

To me help me gauge your perspective, do you think Martinez has confidence issues? aka a lack there of?

 

[walksalone]

To me help me gauge your perspective, do you think Martinez has confidence issues? aka a lack there of?

I hope what I'm gonna say will make sense...

When things are clicking (good line play, Rex getting solid gains, receivers not dropping passes) he has a swagger to him. But if there are a series of things that go wrong in a fairly quick succession, then he can look lost really fast...

 

[Enhance]

To me help me gauge your perspective, do you think Martinez has confidence issues? aka a lack there of?

I hope what I'm gonna say will make sense...

When things are clicking (good line play, Rex getting solid gains, receivers not dropping passes) he has a swagger to him. But if there are a series of things that go wrong in a fairly quick succession, then he can look lost really fast...

I wouldn't disagree with that. I guess Martinez goes as the team goes, and the team goes as the team goes. That needs an explanation...

We have a tendency to snowball when something bad happens, and we saw it more than one time this year. We pulled away (luckily) against tOSU, but other games (Wisconsin, USC) we punched them in the mouths early and had them on the ropes. Then one thing goes wrong and the whole team goes array.

I don't think this phenomenon is specific to Martinez. I think the entire team feeds off of negative play far more than they should.

Edit - It's like we're the girl in Pan's Labyrinth. She's told not to take any food from that table, and she is doing a really good job up until the very end. As soon as she makes that one mistake, she's totally screwed and narrowly escapes. Most of the time, we never escaped.

 

[walksalone]

I wouldn't disagree with that. I guess Martinez goes as the team goes, and the team goes as the team goes. That needs an explanation...

We have a tendency to snowball when something bad happens, and we saw it more than one time this year. We pulled away (luckily) against tOSU, but other games (Wisconsin, USC) we punched them in the mouths early and had them on the ropes. Then one thing goes wrong and the whole team goes array.

I don't think this phenomenon is specific to Martinez. I think the entire team feeds off of negative play far more than they should.

Edit - It's like we're the girl in Pan's Labyrinth. She's told not to take any food from that table, and she is doing a really good job up until the very end. As soon as she makes that one mistake, she's totally screwed and narrowly escapes. Most of the time, we never escaped.

Couldn't have said it better.

And when thing start to snowball, T-mart, tried to step up, and put the team on his back. And not for a lack of trying, talent, or things beyond his control, he's trying to become the guy when the sh*'ts hitting the proverbial fan, to rally the troops for a win...

 

[Enhance]

The troubling issue is that I think we have guys out there who are leaders and can play that role, maybe even Martinez. But something, somewhere in this team, holds back that consistency.

 

[walksalone]

The troubling issue is that I think we have guys out there who are leaders and can play that role, maybe even Martinez. But something, somewhere in this team, holds back that consistency.

At that point what does it stem from? Coaching, offensive/defensive scheme's?

It is up to the coaches to figure it out though.

 

[Enhance]

Exactly, but it's one of those questions I think everybody is begging to have answered. Why does this team falter so easily? Why are there such glaring consistency issues despite, what I think is, a pretty talented group of players and coaches who know what they're doing?

I think you to have start with the coaching first. They're ultimately responsible for the team's behavior, and although I think our players need to take more personal responsibility, the coaches are the ones creating the culture. Obviously we have a staff that knows how to coach and what to coach, but I think they're missing something. One BIG thing they're missing is continuity and consistency among themselves, I think. It's tough to develop consistency on a team when your coaching staff is full of experienced, although young, coaches and several coaching changes the last two seasons.

 

[walksalone]

Exactly, but it's one of those questions I think everybody is begging to have answered. Why does this team falter so easily? Why are there such glaring consistency issues despite, what I think is, a pretty talented group of players and coaches who know what they're doing?

I think you to have start with the coaching first. They're ultimately responsible for the team's behavior, and although I think our players need to take more personal responsibility, the coaches are the ones creating the culture. Obviously we have a staff that knows how to coach and what to coach, but I think they're missing something. One BIG thing they're missing is continuity and consistency among themselves, I think. It's tough to develop consistency on a team when your coaching staff is full of experienced, although young, coaches and several coaching changes the last two seasons.

And all of us are waiting for that moment when the light switch gets flipped on and it all comes together. I'm not sure if its going to happen at the coaching level or on the players level.

Some are more patient than others, and I'm just hoping its sooner rather than later.

 

[bshirt]

If you've got a really good OLine, you can do about whatever you want with the other six guys on the field.

Exactly. Great line play makes up for a lot of deficiencies at other positions. So goes the offensive line, so goes the team.

I pose a few of questions, though. First, with the amount of talent coming back this year, what should we expect? In conjunction, what should we expect in 2013, and what kind of standards do we hold Cotton to during that time?

Second, I thought the line played better this year than they did in '09 and '10, but do we attribute that to the new coaches helping out, the talent or Cotton?

Third, if we do not have a consistently above average line by the end of next year, is it time for Cotton to go, or does he deserve 2013 with the vasts amount of talent we will have returning? This, of course, is given that everything stays the same and players don't leave.

Really? Our run production was wayyyy down from last year in run YPG and perhaps even more importantly, YPC. Games like NW where we're facing a truly horrid defense and still getting stuffed didn't impress me much.

So we bring in Garrison/Stai and our run production nose-dives.....so of course that's still on Barney?

Otoh, the schedule was much tougher (defensively) than 2010. Maybe that makes it a wash. I don't know. But I do know and fully agree the next two years is the key. We've recruited the big uglies hard the last couple years and we "should" start to see the results soon.

 

[Touchdown Tommie]

It frustrates me how poorly they play...technique seems wrong, discipline is not there (see all of penalties), and the domination is gone. I know we cannot live in the past and keep comparing each group to the Pipeline we had going. However, if we truly want to 'be back' the line needs to get figured out. With the guys coming back and what their expectations are, if they are poor again, there is not doubt in my mind Cotton needs to step down.