* The Official Thread for the X's and O's of Football. *

Scratchtown

Scratchtown

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This thread is being started for those of you who would like to talk schematics, have questions about schematics, etc...

I know I won't have all the answers but hopefully there will be enough traffic in the thread that if a question arises, someone can help you. I love talking X's and O's. Hopefully some others do as well.

I'm gunna start it off with a play that OSU used over and over again vs the Oregon Ducks in the national championship last season.

C-fOzL.gif


Most will call this a trap, but the guard is not the one pulling and "trapping" the DLineman. It's actually the H-back #81. In this instance he is "whamming" the Nose Guard just to the right of the center. This is called "Wham" so it doesn't get confusing for the players in the huddle (if they huddle). You can see the OLine release to the second level to occupy the LB's and its all Elliott after that. This play is probably my favorite of any right now.

This was a quick post, but just wanted to start things off, feel free to post still pictures, diagrams, etc.

 
That's one of my personal favorites as well Coach Power T. I loved watching as Ohio St. ran it over and over again. I especially love the use of the H-Back. Beck was even getting into using the H-Back a little bit more this last year. You could tell Ohio St. has worked on this a million times. Funny thing was, the left guard completely whiffed on his block but the LB'er ran himself out of the play on that play you showed, but Elliot is so damn fast. Another thing, you have to have an H-back that can take on a NT/NG the way #81 did.

I think Meyer is a genius when it comes to diagnosing an opponents tendancies and using them against them, but honestly, I don't know that Oregon was doing a whole lot wrong. I think Ohio St. just executes so well and their offensive line is so physically dominant, that Oregon was purely out-matched.

What say you? You think there's a better way to attack this kind of play? You think loading the box, putting more guys right on the LoS would help or hurt on this kind of play? Personally I've always thought it was tougher for an offensive line if you put more defenders right at the point of attack, but that can backfire on a defense too and make you vulnerable. If you were the Oregon DC what would you have done?

 
Great point about the OSU receivers and their blocking. Text book right there.

Honestly, I think Oregon's DC had to be in a tough position with only having 2 films on the offense they were running with Cardale. Not that too many things would be changed, but it's the percentages/tendencies that change to adapt to the skill set of a different QB.

If I was Oregon's DC, without knowing what he did 100 percent, I would have my LB cross-key on the H-Back, knowing that my LB's weren't the greatest unit I've had. So in prepping for this play I would tell them to be ready that when the H-Back starts across to "Wham" I'm stepping up in that gap he's trying to create faster than the lineman releasing can get to me. Without bringing in counter plays into the conversation, that's what I would do.

Also, I noticed a couple times during this game that Elliott's vision made this play work even when it was stuffed by the Oregon D. I think it was right after halftime when they ran this near their own goal line and Zeke started to the Wham side (left) and then broke right and ran through a backside gap inside the backside Tackle.

 
Coach Power'T said:
I'm gunna start it off with a play that OSU used over and over again vs the Oregon Ducks in the national championship last season.

C-fOzL.gif
Click to expand...
True2tRA said:
What say you? You think there's a better way to attack this kind of play? You think loading the box, putting more guys right on the LoS would help or hurt on this kind of play? Personally I've always thought it was tougher for an offensive line if you put more defenders right at the point of attack, but that can backfire on a defense too and make you vulnerable. If you were the Oregon DC what would you have done?
Click to expand...
Ducks had four guys on the LOS. And still got forced out of a gap. Oregon still could've stopped that play for 10 yds or so, except both the LB and the safety coming up for run support missed their tackles.

tOSU's timing on that play is incredible. For as big as he is, Zeke Elliott can really scoot through a tiny little crease.

 
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Here is the other thing with this play, True.

If you notice the DE #44 for Oregon at the top of the play and watch Cardale, you can see how they are reading the DE while running the Wham. This makes it so freaking hard to defend because the DE can't crash down to help on the RB or else Cardale pulls and no one is left. Buckner played it right, IMO, and played the QB. Linebackers were kinda sorta there, and one of the safeties #8 took a HORRIBLE angle on the play too...

 
Coach Power'T said:
Great point about the OSU receivers and their blocking. Text book right there.

Honestly, I think Oregon's DC had to be in a tough position with only having 2 films on the offense they were running with Cardale. Not that too many things would be changed, but it's the percentages/tendencies that change to adapt to the skill set of a different QB.

If I was Oregon's DC, without knowing what he did 100 percent, I would have my LB cross-key on the H-Back, knowing that my LB's weren't the greatest unit I've had. So in prepping for this play I would tell them to be ready that when the H-Back starts across to "Wham" I'm stepping up in that gap he's trying to create faster than the lineman releasing can get to me. Without bringing in counter plays into the conversation, that's what I would do.

Also, I noticed a couple times during this game that Elliott's vision made this play work even when it was stuffed by the Oregon D. I think it was right after halftime when they ran this near their own goal line and Zeke started to the Wham side (left) and then broke right and ran through a backside gap inside the backside Tackle.
Click to expand...
Yea, you can see on that play you posted the GIF of, the LB'er basically did the exact opposite. He vacated the lane and I don't think the LG expected him to be to his left. The Linebacker needed to go right and fill the gap. i think that's why the LG missed the block. he came to crash the gap and the LBer was already out of position.

 
Coach Power'T said:
Here is the other thing with this play, True.

If you notice the DE #44 for Oregon at the top of the play and watch Cardale, you can see how they are reading the DE while running the Wham. This makes it so freaking hard to defend because the DE can't crash down to help on the RB or else Cardale pulls and no one is left. Buckner played it right, IMO, and played the QB. Linebackers were kinda sorta there, and one of the safeties #8 took a HORRIBLE angle on the play too...
Click to expand...
I saw that, damn that's tough. You know the second you crash as the DE, Cardale will pull it and run right around the edge. Probably scores even easier than EZ-E did on that play.

I think LB #35 did all he could, he did his job. I can't figure why that NT and that other LB'er come rushing up the field so hard like that. It seemed like that's where the difference was.

The safety does miss the tackle but damn that's a tough task. Elliot is deceptively quick and trying to come down hill and take that angle is a lot.

(did you make that GIF?)

 
True2tRA said:
Coach Power said:
Here is the other thing with this play, True.

If you notice the DE #44 for Oregon at the top of the play and watch Cardale, you can see how they are reading the DE while running the Wham. This makes it so freaking hard to defend because the DE can't crash down to help on the RB or else Cardale pulls and no one is left. Buckner played it right, IMO, and played the QB. Linebackers were kinda sorta there, and one of the safeties #8 took a HORRIBLE angle on the play too...
Click to expand...
I saw that, damn that's tough. You know the second you crash as the DE, Cardale will pull it and run right around the edge. Probably scores even easier than EZ-E did on that play.
I think LB #35 did all he could, he did his job. I can't figure why that NT and that other LB'er come rushing up the field so hard like that. It seemed like that's where the difference was.

The safety does miss the tackle but damn that's a tough task. Elliot is deceptively quick and trying to come down hill and take that angle is a lot.

(did you make that GIF?)
Click to expand...
Yes it is a very difficult task to make that tackle. Haha I like the "EZ-E" reference.

Yes I did make that. I also have one of Oregon's Power Leads that I'm gunna post later when I get home.

 
2bCt41.gif


I called this play a "power lead" because of the guard looking to kick out the first threat at the 2nd level on the outside and the center leading through the hole, where he TRIED to block the LB and fell down.

You can see #6 in motion to the top of the formation and at the last second you can see how that pulled a safety down closer to the LOS. Oregon had run that bubble screen multiple times in the game and as you can see they were straying from that tendency (You can see #8 fly up after the ball was snapped). Mariota is reading the backside LB #5. What he's looking for is for #5 to flow hard with #24 (Tyner) and if he did, Mariota would have pulled that ball and went straight upfield. As you can see the LB holds till he knows the ball has been given and makes him a step slow and when he gets to the ball carrier he makes a horrible attempt at stopping #24.

I would actually block this differently just out of preference. I would rather have my TE release up to that stacked CB #26, and then have the PS Guard kick out the DE. Same play, different blocking. The center can still lead up through the hole.

 
I coached little kids (jr high and peewee) I used the H-back "wham" because a) the oline had trouble trapping and b) the opponents tended to load the box because of a run heavy league (few QBs could throw well.

The only pass play with the peewees was a TE pop pass as the first option, flanker on the same side ran an arrow route to the inside as the second option and the QB pull it down and try to get as much as possible. We were the only team to score a passing touchdown.

 
Georgia Tech's "Outside Veer Opt" (my verbage, if it's wrong...please correct me)

emVXWw.gif


Here are the Stills that I screen shotted.

(Coming soon, when the Attachment feature gets fixed)

- You can see QB #5 read DE #15 of FSU, this is what tells me it's outside veer with the option to pull and run around the end with the motioned WB with another option to pitch later if another defensive threat were there.

- PS Tackle releases upfield, leaving the DE so the QB has a good read. **IF the DE does not crash inside on the Fullback, QB would give to the Fullback, rather than pull the ball.

- One of the biggest things that helps the Flexbone, is the perimeter blocking by the WR's and the playside WB's...Cut block, cut block cut block! Love Love Love this offense!

Besides the spread, the flexbone is my favorite offense. I wish GaTech would do more with it, because I honestly think they are super basic, but, still they have tons of success with it.

 
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