2012 Presidential Election Polls

[sd'sker]

i want to reply, but honestly i do not have the energy. i will keep it short. the stimulus did help, people forget how close we were to the brink of utter collapse. hell, bush was considering nationalizing the banks. also, a major problem with the stimulus is that it was not big enough and a lot of it went to banks to give out loans. instead they just used it to balance their books. lack of oversight sure, but is the not what conservatives love?

also, you perception of obama's personality is completely flawed and a construct by fox news.

I'm so taken aback by his ego that I believe he is not really an advocate for anyone but himself and his self perception of how the world should be.

where does that come from? why do you think he is only an advocate for himself? you say that, but then you say that romney people who say romney is only an advocate for the rich are confused? look at romney's donors, look at romney's plans. how do those help anyone but the rich? obama put his career on the line for obamacare, which incidentally helps everyone, and is a huge boon for insurance companies. you have got to get our of your echo chambers and vacuums.

i know you will disagree with everything i said, that is ok. this is just my perspective, i do respect yours. but it never hurts to keep an open-mind, including myself.

 

[Comish]

They are sitting on the massive amounts of cash because of the uncertainty of future hits on businesses, as well as the looming Obamacare costs and impending debt crisis. As president, he has failed to provide any leadership to congress for fear of riling up some segment of the voting populace before the election and his stooges Reid and Pelosi crumple to his whims.

Uncertainty for sure, but I think it has more to do with the uncertainty in the global market rather than here in the States. Though you probably could make an argument for presidential uncertainty. I do think Romney was on the right track when he said they may not have to do anything at all for the economy to increase it's growth. It likely will happen no matter who is elected since it means 4 years of assumed "stability".
But blaming the healthcare mandate is a cop out to me. The majority of businesses who would be sitting on cash can either A) already afford the news changes (or the are insignificant), or pass them on to the consumer B) already have health insurance plans for their employees that may only need slight adjustments if any. If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

You mean as in the entirely wasted stimulus billions? The shovel ready jobs that he later admitted weren't?

I don't think 1.2 to 3.3 million jobs was a waste. But the money could have been invest more wisely, yes. I know Clinton's not popular here but he is a smart guy. He's said that the stimulus was never meant take us back to where we were but to stop the bleeding and get the economy moving in the right direction again, which it did.
You can't deny that this nations infrastructure is crumbling. The amount of work that would be created from upgrading the power grid, rebuilding roads bridges water and railways, and improving sewer and gas line would be huge in boosting the economy. Locally for cities you might be able to get private investment for projects like Chicago is trying to do. But nationally I don't think many state governments have the means, without help from the federal government, to afford the projects.

You can't deny that this nations infrastructure is crumbling. The amount of work that would be created from upgrading the power grid, rebuilding roads bridges water and railways, and improving sewer and gas line would be huge in boosting the economy

On this we concur . The opportunity WAS there with the stimulus but instead it was used for political payback.

 

[carlfense]

If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

That's a strange argument. Before Obamacare/ACA employers could have dropped their employees' insurance and paid no fine whatsoever.

Why is it more likely that they drop insurance now that they have to pay a fine when they could have dropped insurance and paid no fine before the ACA?

 

[Comish]

i want to reply, but honestly i do not have the energy. i will keep it short. the stimulus did help, people forget how close we were to the brink of utter collapse. WE ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE. hell, bush was considering nationalizing the banks.???? also, a major problem with the stimulus is that it was not big enough and a lot of it went to banks to give out loans. instead they just used it to balance their books. lack of oversight sure, but is the not what conservatives love?

also, you perception of obama's personality is completely flawed and a construct by fox news.

I'm so taken aback by his ego that I believe he is not really an advocate for anyone but himself and his self perception of how the world should be.

where does that come from? why do you think he is only an advocate for himself? you say that, but then you say that romney people who say romney is only an advocate for the rich are confused? look at romney's donors, look at romney's plans. how do those help anyone but the rich? obama put his career on the line for obamacare, which incidentally helps everyone, and is a huge boon for insurance companies. you have got to get our of your echo chambers and vacuums.

i know you will disagree with everything i said, that is ok. this is just my perspective, i do respect yours. but it never hurts to keep an open-mind, including myself.

i want to reply, but honestly i do not have the energy. i will keep it short. the stimulus did help, people forget how close we were to the brink of utter collapse. hell, bush was considering nationalizing the banks. also, a major problem with the stimulus is that it was not big enough and a lot of it went to banks to give out loans. instead they just used it to balance their books. lack of oversight sure, but is the not what conservatives love?

also, you perception of obama's personality is completely flawed and a construct by fox news.

I'm so taken aback by his ego that I believe he is not really an advocate for anyone but himself and his self perception of how the world should be.

where does that come from? It comes from listening to him for 4 years. He is the most narcissitic man I have ever imagined.. why do you think he is only an advocate for himself? you say that, but then you say that romney people who say romney is only an advocate for the rich are confused? look at romney's donors, look at romney's plans. how do those help anyone but the rich? obama put his career on the line for obamacare, which incidentally helps everyone,Really, how about the millions still to remain uninsured even after full implementation?. and is a huge boon for insurance companies. you have got to get our of your echo chambers and vacuums. This is the biggest laugh of all, the way the left has appropriated the "echo chamber" phrasing, which in truth describe the embarrassing pandering of the mainstream media shilling for the annointed one. THAT is your echo chamber!

i know you will disagree with everything i said, that is ok. this is just my perspective, i do respect yours. but it never hurts to keep an open-mind, including myself.

Not EVERYTHING you say...............for instance on Husker football matters you seem much more lucid.....

 

[Comish]

If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

That's a strange argument. Before Obamacare/ACA employers could have dropped their employees' insurance and paid no fine whatsoever.

Why is it more likely that they drop insurance now that they have to pay a fine when they could have dropped insurance and paid no fine before the ACA?

Once something is inevitable, most will opt for the least penalizing outcome.....

 

[carlfense]

If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

That's a strange argument. Before Obamacare/ACA employers could have dropped their employees' insurance and paid no fine whatsoever.

Why is it more likely that they drop insurance now that they have to pay a fine when they could have dropped insurance and paid no fine before the ACA?

Once something is inevitable, most will opt for the least penalizing outcome.....

Once what is inevitable?

1. Before the ACA employers could have dropped insurance and paid no fine.

2. After the ACA employers must pay a fine if they drop insurance.

Why are they more likely to drop insurance under #1 than #2?

 

[ZRod]

You can't deny that this nations infrastructure is crumbling. The amount of work that would be created from upgrading the power grid, rebuilding roads bridges water and railways, and improving sewer and gas line would be huge in boosting the economy

On this we concur . The opportunity WAS there with the stimulus but instead it was used for political payback.

Like I said the money definitely could have been allocated better, but overall the package did what it was intended to do. Could you give a few specifics of the political paybacks other than Solyndra.

 

[Comish]

You can't deny that this nations infrastructure is crumbling. The amount of work that would be created from upgrading the power grid, rebuilding roads bridges water and railways, and improving sewer and gas line would be huge in boosting the economy

On this we concur . The opportunity WAS there with the stimulus but instead it was used for political payback.

Like I said the money definitely could have been allocated better, but overall the package did what it was intended to do. Could you give a few specifics of the political paybacks other than Solyndra.

Giving GM to the unions..............??

 

[carlfense]

WE ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE.

What's with the Believe in America crowd not believing in America? Is it conditional, or what?

Why do you think that we are on the brink of collapse and what exactly do you mean by that phrase?

Really, how about the millions still to remain uninsured even after full implementation?.

Are you talking about after 2015 when it's fully implemented? How many people do you estimate would be uninsured under the Republican health care plan of doing nothing? (Not that they have many options . . . since the ACA is their health care plan.)

 

[Comish]

If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

That's a strange argument. Before Obamacare/ACA employers could have dropped their employees' insurance and paid no fine whatsoever.

Why is it more likely that they drop insurance now that they have to pay a fine when they could have dropped insurance and paid no fine before the ACA?

Once something is inevitable, most will opt for the least penalizing outcome.....

Once what is inevitable?

1. Before the ACA employers could have dropped insurance and paid no fine.

2. After the ACA employers must pay a fine if they drop insurance.

Why are they more likely to drop insurance under #1 than #2?

I don't understand the disconnect here...........NOW that Justice Roberts has convoluted the ACA into the law of the land..................the only choices are (1) pay a small fine (FAR less than paying for insurance) or (2) pay for the insurance.

 

[carlfense]

You can't deny that this nations infrastructure is crumbling. The amount of work that would be created from upgrading the power grid, rebuilding roads bridges water and railways, and improving sewer and gas line would be huge in boosting the economy

On this we concur . The opportunity WAS there with the stimulus but instead it was used for political payback.

Like I said the money definitely could have been allocated better, but overall the package did what it was intended to do. Could you give a few specifics of the political paybacks other than Solyndra.

Giving GM to the unions..............??

:lol:

 

[carlfense]

If anything, Obamacare offers a small enough penalty that it is by DESIGN fiscally more attractive to pay the fine then provide for insurance........thereby providing a backdoor to a single payer eventuality.

That's a strange argument. Before Obamacare/ACA employers could have dropped their employees' insurance and paid no fine whatsoever.

Why is it more likely that they drop insurance now that they have to pay a fine when they could have dropped insurance and paid no fine before the ACA?

Once something is inevitable, most will opt for the least penalizing outcome.....

Once what is inevitable?

1. Before the ACA employers could have dropped insurance and paid no fine.

2. After the ACA employers must pay a fine if they drop insurance.

Why are they more likely to drop insurance under #1 than #2?

I don't understand the disconnect here...........NOW that Justice Roberts has convoluted the ACA into the law of the land..................the only choices are (1) pay a small fine (FAR less than paying for insurance) or (2) pay for the insurance.

Yeah . . . it's pretty clear that you don't understand the disconnect.

If the employer provided insurance before the ACA . . . why would they drop the insurance now when they would have to pay a fine?

Before the ACA employers could provide no insurance without penalty. Many provided insurance anyways. Why does the penalty make them less likely to provide insurance?

 

[Comish]

WE ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE.

What's with the Believe in America crowd not believing in America? Is it conditional, or what?

Why do you think that we are on the brink of collapse and what exactly do you mean by that phrase?

Really, how about the millions still to remain uninsured even after full implementation?.

Are you talking about after 2015 when it's fully implemented? How many people do you estimate would be uninsured under the Republican health care plan of doing nothing? (Not that they have many options . . . since the ACA is their health care plan.)

Nice twist try again Carl, but the response was to the point of Obamacare solving all our heath care problems (nowhere in the post was a side by side comparison)

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

 

[knapplc]

Nice twist try again Carl, but the response was to the point of Obamacare solving all our heath care problems (nowhere in the post was a side by side comparison)

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

Nobody is making this assertion. Anywhere.

 

[carlfense]

Nice twist try again Carl, but the response was to the point of Obamacare solving all our heath care problems (nowhere in the post was a side by side comparison)

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

Nobody is making this assertion. Anywhere.

:yeah

I don't think I've ever said anything even close to that.