2012 Presidential Election Polls

[carlfense]

WE ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE.

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

Is "not out of the woods" equivalent to "CURRENTLY ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE"?

Which is it? Or do you think that they are the same thing?

 

[ZRod]

Giving GM to the unions..............??

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I really don't know what you mean by that. I guess I haven't followed the situation closely anymore. Give me something to read up on and I'll back off the bag on Comish train.

 

[Comish]

Nice twist try again Carl, but the response was to the point of Obamacare solving all our heath care problems (nowhere in the post was a side by side comparison)

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

Nobody is making this assertion. Anywhere.

:yeah

I don't think I've ever said anything even close to that.

Post #135 where I was responding to sd'Husker who stated that we were saved from a fiscal collapse by Obama. I was pointing out that we have not been saved from anything, we have only postponed the really touch decisions.

 

[carlfense]

Nice twist try again Carl, but the response was to the point of Obamacare solving all our heath care problems (nowhere in the post was a side by side comparison)

And if you think we are out of the fiscal woods with the debt crisis, entitlement solvency issues, and a world wide economic collapse all imminent............well...........??

Nobody is making this assertion. Anywhere.

:yeah

I don't think I've ever said anything even close to that.

Post #135 where I was responding to sd'Husker who stated that we were saved from a fiscal collapse by Obama. I was pointing out that we have not been saved from anything, we have only postponed the really touch decisions.

So where was the part where someone said that Obamacare would solve all of our health care problems?

(It'd probably save you some time if you would just admit that it was a product of your imagination.)

 

[Comish]

Giving GM to the unions..............??

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I really don't know what you mean by that. I guess I haven't followed the situation closely anymore. Give me something to read upon and I'll back off the bag on Comish train.

I've linked 1 article below, but the salient point is # 4 below"

**It should be noted that established contract law required secured creditors be paid first, but Obama's administration simply ignored this legal requirement and gave the unsecured union creditors first position - leaving whatever might be left for the secured investors.

http://gaanderson.hu...-Untold-Details

 

[carlfense]

Giving GM to the unions..............??

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I really don't know what you mean by that. I guess I haven't followed the situation closely anymore. Give me something to read upon and I'll back off the bag on Comish train.

I've linked 1 article below, but the salient point is # 4 below"

**It should be noted that established contract law required secured creditors be paid first, but Obama's administration simply ignored this legal requirement and gave the unsecured union creditors first position - leaving whatever might be left for the secured investors.

http://gaanderson.hu...-Untold-Details

So they gave preference to certain creditors? That happens in every single bankruptcy proceeding . . .

What do you think that proves?

 

[Comish]

Giving GM to the unions..............??

Forgive me for being obtuse, but I really don't know what you mean by that. I guess I haven't followed the situation closely anymore. Give me something to read upon and I'll back off the bag on Comish train.

I've linked 1 article below, but the salient point is # 4 below"

**It should be noted that established contract law required secured creditors be paid first, but Obama's administration simply ignored this legal requirement and gave the unsecured union creditors first position - leaving whatever might be left for the secured investors.

http://gaanderson.hu...-Untold-Details

So they gave preference to certain creditors? That happens in every single bankruptcy proceeding . . .

What do you think that proves?

As a lib, I know the phrase "ignoring the LEGAL requirement" carries little weight for you, but come on...........

 

[carlfense]

As a lib, I know the phrase "ignoring the LEGAL requirement" carries little weight for you, but come on...........

You don't have much experience with bankruptcy law, do you? Contracts are overridden in nearly every bankruptcy. That's not ignoring legal requirements.

 

[knapplc]

carlfense, it's only bad when Obama does it.

Companies’ Ills Did Not Harm Romney’s Firm
Cambridge Industries, an automotive plastics supplier whose losses had been building for three consecutive years, finally filed for bankruptcy in May 2000 under a mountain of debt that had ballooned to more than $300 million.

Yet Bain Capital, the private equity firm that controlled the Michigan-based company, continued to religiously collect its $950,000-a-year “advisory fee” in quarterly installments, even to the very end, according to court documents.

In all, Bain garnered more than $10 million in fees from Cambridge over five years, including a $2.25 million payment just for buying the company, according to bankruptcy records and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Meanwhile, Bain’s investors saw their $16 million investment in Cambridge wiped out.

That Bain was able to reap revenue from Cambridge, even as it foundered, was hardly unusual.

The private equity firm, co-founded and run by Mitt Romney, held a majority stake in more than 40 United States-based companies from its inception in 1984 to early 1999, when Mr. Romney left Bain to lead the Salt Lake City Olympics. Of those companies, at least seven eventually filed for bankruptcy while Bain remained involved, or shortly afterward, according to a review by The New York Times. In some instances, hundreds of employees lost their jobs. In most of those cases, however, records and interviews suggest that Bain and its executives still found a way to make money.

 

[Ziggy]

Apparently neither do you Carl, its true that contracts are overridden all the time, but its the types of contracts that are given first chance to receive some restitution that was skipped over in the GM bail out that is being discussed. The UAW were given preferential treatment that is never allowed in any other bankruptcy.

 

[Comish]

carlfense, it's only bad when Obama does it.

Companies’ Ills Did Not Harm Romney’s Firm
Cambridge Industries, an automotive plastics supplier whose losses had been building for three consecutive years, finally filed for bankruptcy in May 2000 under a mountain of debt that had ballooned to more than $300 million.

Yet Bain Capital, the private equity firm that controlled the Michigan-based company, continued to religiously collect its $950,000-a-year “advisory fee” in quarterly installments, even to the very end, according to court documents.

In all, Bain garnered more than $10 million in fees from Cambridge over five years, including a $2.25 million payment just for buying the company, according to bankruptcy records and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Meanwhile, Bain’s investors saw their $16 million investment in Cambridge wiped out.

That Bain was able to reap revenue from Cambridge, even as it foundered, was hardly unusual.

The private equity firm, co-founded and run by Mitt Romney, held a majority stake in more than 40 United States-based companies from its inception in 1984 to early 1999, when Mr. Romney left Bain to lead the Salt Lake City Olympics. Of those companies, at least seven eventually filed for bankruptcy while Bain remained involved, or shortly afterward, according to a review by The New York Times. In some instances, hundreds of employees lost their jobs. In most of those cases, however, records and interviews suggest that Bain and its executives still found a way to make money.

No, it's bad for anyone to do it..............no argument from me on that.....

 

[Ziggy]

carlfense, it's only bad when Obama does it.

Companies’ Ills Did Not Harm Romney’s Firm
Cambridge Industries, an automotive plastics supplier whose losses had been building for three consecutive years, finally filed for bankruptcy in May 2000 under a mountain of debt that had ballooned to more than $300 million.

Yet Bain Capital, the private equity firm that controlled the Michigan-based company, continued to religiously collect its $950,000-a-year “advisory fee” in quarterly installments, even to the very end, according to court documents.

In all, Bain garnered more than $10 million in fees from Cambridge over five years, including a $2.25 million payment just for buying the company, according to bankruptcy records and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Meanwhile, Bain’s investors saw their $16 million investment in Cambridge wiped out.

That Bain was able to reap revenue from Cambridge, even as it foundered, was hardly unusual.

The private equity firm, co-founded and run by Mitt Romney, held a majority stake in more than 40 United States-based companies from its inception in 1984 to early 1999, when Mr. Romney left Bain to lead the Salt Lake City Olympics. Of those companies, at least seven eventually filed for bankruptcy while Bain remained involved, or shortly afterward, according to a review by The New York Times. In some instances, hundreds of employees lost their jobs. In most of those cases, however, records and interviews suggest that Bain and its executives still found a way to make money.

Apples and Oranges, the Obama admin had control over who got what in the restructure, Bain capital bought the company, and then decided to restructure based on a set of laws forcing them to pay debtors in a pre-specified order.

 

[carlfense]

Apparently neither do you Carl, its true that contracts are overridden all the time, but its the types of contracts that are given first chance to receive some restitution that was skipped over in the GM bail out that is being discussed. The UAW were given preferential treatment that is never allowed in any other bankruptcy.

So it's only a problem when the UAW is given preferential treatment? As opposed to any other creditor receiving preferential treatment?

At least you do seem to grasp that contracts are often altered in bankruptcies. That's a start.

 

[carlfense]

carlfense, it's only bad when Obama does it.

Companies’ Ills Did Not Harm Romney’s Firm
Cambridge Industries, an automotive plastics supplier whose losses had been building for three consecutive years, finally filed for bankruptcy in May 2000 under a mountain of debt that had ballooned to more than $300 million.

Yet Bain Capital, the private equity firm that controlled the Michigan-based company, continued to religiously collect its $950,000-a-year “advisory fee” in quarterly installments, even to the very end, according to court documents.

In all, Bain garnered more than $10 million in fees from Cambridge over five years, including a $2.25 million payment just for buying the company, according to bankruptcy records and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Meanwhile, Bain’s investors saw their $16 million investment in Cambridge wiped out.

That Bain was able to reap revenue from Cambridge, even as it foundered, was hardly unusual.

The private equity firm, co-founded and run by Mitt Romney, held a majority stake in more than 40 United States-based companies from its inception in 1984 to early 1999, when Mr. Romney left Bain to lead the Salt Lake City Olympics. Of those companies, at least seven eventually filed for bankruptcy while Bain remained involved, or shortly afterward, according to a review by The New York Times. In some instances, hundreds of employees lost their jobs. In most of those cases, however, records and interviews suggest that Bain and its executives still found a way to make money.

Apples and Oranges, the Obama admin had control over who got what in the restructure, Bain capital bought the company, and then decided to restructure based on a set of laws forcing them to pay debtors in a pre-specified order.

So when the US government steps in to offer loans in a bankruptcy and determines creditor priority (giving priority to a union creditor) . . . it's evidence of some sort of pro-union conspiracy.

When Bain Capital steps in to offer loans in a bankruptcy and determines creditor priority (giving priority to Bain) . . . it's capitalism.

Gotcha. Not the same at all.

 

[carlfense]

carlfense, it's only bad when Obama does it.

Companies’ Ills Did Not Harm Romney’s Firm
Cambridge Industries, an automotive plastics supplier whose losses had been building for three consecutive years, finally filed for bankruptcy in May 2000 under a mountain of debt that had ballooned to more than $300 million.

Yet Bain Capital, the private equity firm that controlled the Michigan-based company, continued to religiously collect its $950,000-a-year “advisory fee” in quarterly installments, even to the very end, according to court documents.

In all, Bain garnered more than $10 million in fees from Cambridge over five years, including a $2.25 million payment just for buying the company, according to bankruptcy records and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Meanwhile, Bain’s investors saw their $16 million investment in Cambridge wiped out.

That Bain was able to reap revenue from Cambridge, even as it foundered, was hardly unusual.

The private equity firm, co-founded and run by Mitt Romney, held a majority stake in more than 40 United States-based companies from its inception in 1984 to early 1999, when Mr. Romney left Bain to lead the Salt Lake City Olympics. Of those companies, at least seven eventually filed for bankruptcy while Bain remained involved, or shortly afterward, according to a review by The New York Times. In some instances, hundreds of employees lost their jobs. In most of those cases, however, records and interviews suggest that Bain and its executives still found a way to make money.

No, it's bad for anyone to do it..............no argument from me on that.....

So all bankruptcy is wrong? But it's particularly wrong when Obama is involved?