Need teaching advice - high school

HuskerShark

HuskerShark

Banned
As I'm sure some of you know, I am student teaching Agricultural Education at the secondary level in a high school in Missouri. Today, I had a little issue and don't know what exactly I should do to address the situation, and I know there are a couple of high school teachers who are members here, so I would love if you would give me some advice.

So here is the context behind the situation. It is a class of 4 sophomore girls (I know, the worst) that had been working on meat identification and plant science in the classroom up until about 4 weeks ago. At that point, we transitioned to the wood shop for them to build a novice woodworking project.

Two girls had projects in the shop that they had partially built as freshmen, so they worked on them. One girl (I will refer to her as "Z") had made an end table and just needed to sand and finish the project with stain and/or varnish. Another girl (girl "Y") had made a box but not a lid, so I helped her glue some boards together, cut them to size, sand it, and mount it on the hinges (by the way, her favorite phrase is "I don't care." I hear it at least 5 times every day in a 50 minute class period)

Another girl (girl "X") found a plan for a wood bench with under-seat storage that should turn out to be neat if done well. HOWEVER... She hasn't even brought in the lumber to get started... 4 WEEKS AFTER WE STARTED!!!

Another girl (girl "W") spent the first couple of days making Jacob's ladder toys out of wood blocks, which was pretty cool, but not really a project. FINALLY, last week I got her to put her mind to making a project. She decided to make a dog bed. She has been working well ever since but requires a lot of assistance because she is clueless when it comes to woodworking. (which is fine. That is why they are doing it: to learn.)

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So every single day, I have checked in on girl X and asked if she had her lumber, and she tells me basically the same thing every day: Something along the lines of "it's Mom's fault." Which it might be, I don't know.

Girl Z completed the sanding phase of her project 2 weeks ago and is supposed to be bringing in some stain. I remind her every single day as well.

So here is what happened today: I told the girls yesterday that if girl Z brings in her stain the tomorrow (which was today) then we could be in the shop. If not, we would be in the classroom.

So today, they came walking in the door, and I had a career exploration unit prepared to start on. I really think it would be enjoyable if the right attitude is put forward. I asked girl Z if she had her stain and she said no. So I began teaching in the classroom and doing an activity to learn about their career interests. All I heard from that point on was how unfair and unreasonable I was being, and how much they didn't care and didn't want to do it, and girl Z made the comment that she can't wait until I am gone (after next Friday). I tried to keep the mood positive, but the more that I tried, the bitchier they got with me. Eventually, I was so mad that I told them to go get their butts to work in the shop. While they were working on their things, I blew off some steam by organizing the tool chest.

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Sorry for the lengthiness, I just think that context is important. My question is this:

I would like to confront them (either as a group or on a 1-to-1 basis) peacefully and try to correct this behavior.

How should I go about it? Any advice/input is greatly appreciated.

 
Def. 1 on 1. If you bring all four in at the same time and talk to them, they could gang up on you and make you even more mad. Just my opinion.

As to what are you going to say, just talk about the issues you have with them. Their bad attitude, etc. You are the teacher and need to be in control in the meeting and you can't let them talk back to you. You are not there to be their friends, so if they don't like you for talking to them, so be it.

 
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Po Belini said:
Def. 1 on 1. If you bring all four in at the same time and talk to them, they could gang up on you and make you even more mad. Just my opinion.

As to what are you going to say, just talk about the issues you have with them. Their bad attitude, etc. You are the teacher and need to be in control in the meeting and you can't let them talk back to you. You are not there to be their friends, so if they don't like you for talking to them, so be it.
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+1 Thanks for the advice. I think that in my discussion with them (especially since I will be leaving in a week) I would like to not make the conversation about "I'm your teacher and you need to listen to me." but rather a positive discussion about what mindset will carry them the furthest as they go on with their lives. Whether or not it will soak in with them at the time of the discussion is probably a crap shoot, but I feel like it is a conversation that they need.

 
I'm not a teacher (although I have coached quite few teams up to about the age you are talking about). I really just wanted to make a smart-a$$ suggestion like flunk them all and start drinking. But, I see this is a serious discussion so, I will offer that Po's suggestion and your response seems absolutely right on the money. No way you can go wrong if you keep it about the specific issues and don't get personal about it. Took some management leadership training years ago and this particular class had five basic principles. Number 1 was; Focus on the situation, issue, or behavior, not the person. Seems like that would be very applicable here.

 
What do you do for progress reports? Showing them their grade(and their parents) with a zero for this project might be motivating. In the future, maybe you could give weekly targets for a project that spans this much time?

At the sophomore level, they should be more independent and responsible for their participation.

 
krc1995 said:
What do you do for progress reports? Showing them their grade(and their parents) with a zero for this project might be motivating. In the future, maybe you could give weekly targets for a project that spans this much time?

At the sophomore level, they should be more independent and responsible for their participation.
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They have grade checks every 2 weeks on Monday that determine their eligibility in sports and other school sponsored activities.

There are certain things that I control in this situation and some things I can't. While I am currently teaching on my own since my cooperating teacher is on vacation (at home for the last 4 weeks after the birth of his first child), it is still not MY classroom. The atmosphere that my cooperating teacher has is very informal and laid back. At times, that allows students to take things for granted and feel entitled to not do anything (which I talked to them about a little bit at the time that this little scuffle was happening today).

If I end up getting the job that I applied for, I will set a more work-oriented tone in my classroom from day one. These students just don't have a lot of that.

 
If you're leaving in a week, I'm sorry to say that I think you've let your window for effective communication pass. They know that, no matter what you do, you're gone in a week. They don't have to listen because there are no consequences of not listening, and those consequences should have been spelled out immediately.

Honestly, what are your options at this point? Say you sit them down, have an honest talk with them, and they listen. What if they revert back to the same behavior the next class? What do you do? Can you flunk them? Because in the absence of a poor/failing grade, I think you have no leverage with kids like this, especially in the short amount of time you have with them.

 
knapplc said:
If you're leaving in a week, I'm sorry to say that I think you've let your window for effective communication pass. They know that, no matter what you do, you're gone in a week. They don't have to listen because there are no consequences of not listening, and those consequences should have been spelled out immediately.

Honestly, what are your options at this point? Say you sit them down, have an honest talk with them, and they listen. What if they revert back to the same behavior the next class? What do you do? Can you flunk them? Because in the absence of a poor/failing grade, I think you have no leverage with kids like this, especially in the short amount of time you have with them.
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I've thought of this as well. But what are my options? 1) Attempt a 1-on-1 discussion with them in order for them to hopefully learn a valuable life lesson about having a positive attitude. OR 2) just say screw it because I'll be gone in a week. I think they deserve a lot more than #2.

Which is why I stated in one of my posts above that if I am going to have a talk with them, I want it to be more positive. Rather than saying "I'm your teacher, so you need to listen to me and respect my authority" I would discuss with them the importance of a positive attitude, and how much they can expand their potential if they embrace positivity rather than negativity.

:dunno This is really why I am asking advice, because it's a tough situation.

 
I think option #2 is quite noble, and that's the route you should take, but be realistic about your audience. If these girls are willing to flout the class and you to this extent, you're not going elicit an epiphany from them at the 11th hour like this. The life lesson best learned here is probably by you, and that is, this is no way to run a class, and if they have these projects that are clear, they should be working on them diligently, and the instant they aren't, that's when you have to say something. This probably would have been better done weeks ago, not with one week left in your time there.

Sophomore-age girls aren't always functioning with cold logic. They're often a fallout zone of hormones and emotions. The likelihood that they'll suddenly see the light and knuckle down is pretty slim.

Still, try. At least you know you've done your job. But I would also caution you to think about having another member of the faculty in the room when you talk to them. Maybe this is a bit tinfoil-hat on my part, but if the girls are really willing to flout your authority like this, you could be setting yourself up for trouble if you tell them something they don't want to hear in a closed room, one-on-one.

 
knapplc said:
I think option #2 is quite noble, and that's the route you should take, but be realistic about your audience. If these girls are willing to flout the class and you to this extent, you're not going elicit an epiphany from them at the 11th hour like this. The life lesson best learned here is probably by you, and that is, this is no way to run a class, and if they have these projects that are clear, they should be working on them diligently, and the instant they aren't, that's when you have to say something. This probably would have been better done weeks ago, not with one week left in your time there.

Sophomore-age girls aren't always functioning with cold logic. They're often a fallout zone of hormones and emotions. The likelihood that they'll suddenly see the light and knuckle down is pretty slim.

Still, try. At least you know you've done your job. But I would also caution you to think about having another member of the faculty in the room when you talk to them. Maybe this is a bit tinfoil-hat on my part, but if the girls are really willing to flout your authority like this, you could be setting yourself up for trouble if you tell them something they don't want to hear in a closed room, one-on-one.
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I'm not sure if that last part is necessary, but not a bad idea. I think that all of these girls are good people, but two of them in particular (I think I named them girl Z and girl X) often come into the room with piss-poor attitudes. As I said, girl X loves the phrase "I don't care" and she really doesn't. Her mom is a b---- and I've heard a LOT of bad things about her.

Girl Z, on the other hand, is extremely bright. Probably one of the smartest kids in the entire school. I honestly feel that all 4 of them have a good heart, but their M.O. is to consistently under-achieve. My main motivation for this "intervention" is to maybe by some miracle help them to find a new way of looking at things that will help them achieve at the level they are capable of. Maybe I want more for them than they want for themselves, but I would have a hard time leaving and not trying to plant that seed in their heads.

 
You are not in a tough situation...you THINK you are in a tough situation.

You have week, let it go.

You will do the same exact thing, 10 years from now, when there is a week left in the school year and some kid is an a$$.

Trust me on this one, let it go.

 
teachercd said:
You are not in a tough situation...you THINK you are in a tough situation.

You have week, let it go.

You will do the same exact thing, 10 years from now, when there is a week left in the school year and some kid is an a$$.

Trust me on this one, let it go.
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Very good point. One thing that is unique about my future teaching position is that I will also be the FFA sponsor, so it will be important for me to create a more personal relationship with the students than the average classroom teacher. I will be spending my summers making visits to their homes, visiting them at different activities, taking the officer team to leadership training, holding meetings, etc.

I guess with all this considered, I owe my students more than just "letting it go."

 
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