Pope Benedict XVI to Resign

sd said:
BigRedBuster said:
Honestly, other than my local church having the name "Catholic Church" on the front, I don't view the Vatican and Pope as that much of an influence on my faith. If it had that big of direct influence, you wouldn't see any change in beliefs and practices from diocese to diocese. In reality, you do. Proof that there is a lot more local influence in the diocese than what some people want to think.
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i think a lot of people want to think that, and do. that is why these conversations are so tough. when we criticize the catholic church, everyone wants to take it personally. we are not criticizing your particular church or beliefs but the institution of the catholic church.
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I know and that is why I really don't have a problem with someone criticizing the Pope or parts of the management of the church. Maybe it's because I didn't belong to the church prior to Vatican 2, but, people need to distinctly distinguish the humans inside a certain religion and the actual religion itself. Absolutely every religion on the face of the Earth has examples throughout history of humans using it for bad things. Just because someone who claims to be "Christian" does a horrible thing doesn't mean Christianity is horrible.

In fact, Christianity is a religion who from the beginning admits that the people in the religion are not perfect and they will sin. Perfection is not attainable even though that is the goal.

 
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Notre Dame Joe said:
If yor complaint is that they maintain confidentiality then show me the association that does not.
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What the church did would be classified as obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, or witness intimidation. Which are felonies. This is not the same thing as not ratting someone out for smoking a joint. This is covering up felonies. Stated specifically to talk to the secular authorities, about known child abuse. In most states not reporting something like that is a crime in and of itself. I don't know many 'associations' that routinely do things like that which are not called the mafia.

 
BigRedBuster said:
As always....when an organization like PSU or the Catholic church goes through something like this, they need to earn the respect of the public back. They need to go over board to do that and even then it takes a long time.

I have absolutely no feelings either way for this Pope. I really didn't think he was that good of Pope in general and probably didn't do what was needed in this situation either.

Honestly, other than my local church having the name "Catholic Church" on the front, I don't view the Vatican and Pope as that much of an influence on my faith. If it had that big of direct influence, you wouldn't see any change in beliefs and practices from diocese to diocese. In reality, you do. Proof that there is a lot more local influence in the diocese than what some people want to think.
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It's more of a question of when and how do you earn the respect back of the people. There is no quick fix or stunning pronouncement that will make it all better. The best thing to do when you've lost your way is go back to basics for a while.

On institutions, the same cry is heard with every scandal, even the Lennay K hoax pulled on Te'o. Some people want to view it as one enormous cover up while others cry "Why didn't they go public sooner?" [ND learned from Te'o on Dec 26th]. The answer is you cannot call reporters at the first hint of bad news even if it looks 100% credible. Being in the public eye makes investigations chaotic and unproductive. And as a bonus you get can sued. So that is never going to change as long as there are institutions; religious or secular, non profit or for profit. When a threat arises, they order the underlings to keep their mouths shut.

As for Rome and your church, it's a hierachical church and gets administered from the top down. But I was warned at ND; if your faith is based on other humans, regardless of their virtue or stature, your faith is not going to last very long. People are only human; you will eventually get burned.

 
The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation.

 
JJHusker1 said:
The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation.
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just because someone has sinned does not preclude him/her from judging and criticizing a pedophile enabler. one who purports to be the moral authority, the mouth of god, for the world. not to mention that these sins are criminal offenses that threaten the welfare of children.

but you could at least take your own advice before you implore others to:

JJHusker1 said:
It was already obvious this guy is/was deranged but that manifesto, damn. He probably had some legitimate gripes but this is not how sane people deal with adversity. Haven't been watching any of it on TV but I hope they put about forty holes in this guy, ASAP.
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however, when i see the pope, i think of this passage:

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JJHusker1 said:
The thing that keeps coming to me as I read this thread is John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It wouls appear there are many who do not heed or believe in this advice. Plenty seem more than willing to toss that rock without hesitation.
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Can I ask, what does that passage mean to you?

Am I not allowed to ask for prosecution of pedophiles because I've done some lesser "sins" in my life too?

But, yes...I have no problem refusing to follow or believe in that advice, however poetic it may seem out of context.

 
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sd'sker- I was not particularly referring to you. And I don't have any qualms with those who would question the actions of the institution or even specific people within the church. But there is no denying there is a list of usual suspects lined up here to cast aspertions on almost anything related to the Catholic religion. It simply appears to me that a few almost enjoy any opportunity that presents itself. I was merely commenting on that perceived situation. I hardly think it makes me a hypocrite to call for the death (one time) of the disturbed Dorner. BTW, not that you necessarily care what I think but I feel you do a pretty good job of fairly and pointedly criticizing specific persons and the institution of the church without unnecessarily bluring the line between those issues and Catholicism in general. Some others could follow your example and cause less anguish as a result. Sorry, but as a Catholic, it gets real old real quick when a select few just lie in wait for the next opportunity.

 
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