Time to tax the poor?

I'm not going to sit here and give my unlimited support to everything in the farm bill or what the government does for farmers. I think it needs reformed. For instance, when corn is $7, there is no need for farmers to get government checks.

I will support help on the bottom end though. This has just as much to do with guaranteeing a good supply of food than it does for any support for family farms. With the way farming is handled in the US, we have the most reliable and stable food supply in the world.

What needs to be reformed is at what level that support kicks in.

I do support ethanol but again, it needs to improve. It's production needs to become more efficient. Maybe corn isn't the best source in the US. Maybe ethanol from corn can be improved. Who knows. BUT, I will say this. I am much more supportive of financial support coming from our government to our farmers which there are thousands of living in small towns all over this country than I am supporting a few billion dollar corporations in Texas who happen to pump oil out of the ground and sometimes leads to wars.

There will always be a demand for a certain amount of oil. However, the more we can get away from it the better. If that results in thousands of local farmers getting that money instead of a few huge companies...I'm all in.

 
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BigRedBuster said:
I will say this. I am much more supportive of financial support coming from our government to our farmers which there are thousands of living in small towns all over this country than I am supporting a few billion dollar corporations in Texas who happen to pump oil out of the ground.
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That's a pretty common theme with our government. Intentions are good, but execution is pretty incompetent.

 
BigRedBuster said:
I'm not going to sit here and give my unlimited support to everything in the farm bill or what the government does for farmers. I think it needs reformed. For instance, when corn is $7, there is no need for farmers to get government checks.

I will support help on the bottom end though. This has just as much to do with guaranteeing a good supply of food than it does for any support for family farms. With the way farming is handled in the US, we have the most reliable and stable food supply in the world.

What needs to be reformed is at what level that support kicks in.

I do support ethanol but again, it needs to improve. It's production needs to become more efficient. Maybe corn isn't the best source in the US. Maybe ethanol from corn can be improved. Who knows. BUT, I will say this. I am much more supportive of financial support coming from our government to our farmers which there are thousands of living in small towns all over this country than I am supporting a few billion dollar corporations in Texas who happen to pump oil out of the ground and sometimes leads to wars.

There will always be a demand for a certain amount of oil. However, the more we can get away from it the better. If that results in thousands of local farmers getting that money instead of a few huge companies...I'm all in.
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I don't disagree. But I find it disingenuous for people who take money from the government to be critical of other people taking money from the government.

 
We cannot tax our way out of the problem - except by broadening the tax base. Job creation has to be proirity # 1 - and crony capitalism needs to end (both Rep and Dem). The problem is it is all about politics and we lack the true leadership to make the hard decisions (to tax as needed and to cut spending as needed). We've outsourced our manufacturing base ( the back bone of any economy) and somehow we need create policies that would encourage domestic companies to bring jobs back and foreign companies to bring new jobs here.

Quote form the end of the article places it into perspective i bold:

We need to get real on the budget, stop demonizing and frightening job creators, fix the job market and broaden the tax base. Or else we face a nightmare of increasing government dependency -- in the context of fiscal insolvency -- that's antithetical to the rugged self-reliance and "Ragged d!(k" bootstrapping that made this country so great. And to do it, the able-bodied poor are going to have to step up their game.

 
sd said:
hard to pull yourself up from your bootstraps when you do not have boots.
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Give a man a fish and he'll have fish for the day, Teach him to fish, and he has fish for a lifetime. Give a man a handout, and he has it for today, Give him a job and he has boots for a lifetime. Time to create jobs and enact policies that do just that. We are creating dependance, time to create independance. There needs to be a safety net while people don't have jobs, but the safety net can only last so long and hold so many people before it fails - Then it is time for job producing policies to come into play that would move people out of the safety net and into jobs.

 
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How am I being disingenuous?

a) I have always said society needs certain levels of support for people who can not support themselves.

b) I said in my post that I am all for reforming the farm bill so that farmers are not getting support when they don't need it.....ie....$7 corn.

 
TGHusker said:
sd said:
hard to pull yourself up from your bootstraps when you do not have boots.
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Give a man a fish and he'll have fish for the day, Teach him to fish, and he has fish for a lifetime. Give a man a handout, and he has it for today, Give him a job and he has boots for a lifetime. Time to create jobs and enact policies that do just that. We are creating dependance, time to create independance. There needs to be a safety net while people don't have jobs, but the safety net can only last so long and hold so many people before it fails - Then it is time for job producing policies to come into play that would move people out of the safety net and into jobs.
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i agree. in fact, i could not agree more. i have long thought that resources should go to job training instead of unemployment. that way the people are on unemployment for less time, they make more, create more revenue for the gov't, and it is ultimately cheaper for the gov't.

 
reform trade laws so that it is beneficial for a company to actually produce their products in the US instead of in China and importing them. You want to see manufacturing jobs come back? Make American made products cost affective with imported.

And...no....I'm not talking about lowering any pay or standard of living of any American worker.

 
sd said:
TGHusker said:
sd said:
hard to pull yourself up from your bootstraps when you do not have boots.
Click to expand...
Give a man a fish and he'll have fish for the day, Teach him to fish, and he has fish for a lifetime. Give a man a handout, and he has it for today, Give him a job and he has boots for a lifetime. Time to create jobs and enact policies that do just that. We are creating dependance, time to create independance. There needs to be a safety net while people don't have jobs, but the safety net can only last so long and hold so many people before it fails - Then it is time for job producing policies to come into play that would move people out of the safety net and into jobs.
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i agree. in fact, i could not agree more. i have long thought that resources should go to job training instead of unemployment. that way the people are on unemployment for less time, they make more, create more revenue for the gov't, and it is ultimately cheaper for the gov't.
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Amen - spot on. A lot of people like to pick on Newt, but he has had some good creative ideas. One of them was to tie unemployment to education - while you are paying someone unemployment - have them go though some type of job training program. Of course that goes back to the 1st issue - we need a job ready and available for him/her to go to.

 
BigRedBuster said:
reform trade laws so that it is beneficial for a company to actually produce their products in the US instead of in China and importing them. You want to see manufacturing jobs come back? Make American made products cost affective with imported.

And...no....I'm not talking about lowering any pay or standard of living of any American worker.
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Then what are you talking about?

Some manufacturing is never coming back. This is a different era of the American worker.

 
BigRedBuster said:
reform trade laws so that it is beneficial for a company to actually produce their products in the US instead of in China and importing them. You want to see manufacturing jobs come back? Make American made products cost affective with imported.

And...no....I'm not talking about lowering any pay or standard of living of any American worker.
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YEP, Tax incentives, - change incentives to drive good behavior by companies not bad behavior (off shoring), change trade laws, spend money on business research that will 'birth' new businesses and industry - one of hte biggest benefits of the space programs was all of the technology it spun off that created whole new industries and jobs. This is the kind of stimulus spending that makes long term sence. But John Kennedy inspired us to go into space - knowing it would have greater benefits. We need that type of leadership - Kennedy also reduced taxes overall and that had a positive impact.

 
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or, fund innovative new technologies (preferably green jobs) so america could be the leader in an industry and have something to export. also, if we redesign our energy grid and do other green projects (e.g. highspeed rail), we could have jobs here that would be impossible to outsource. not to mention the greater spending power from spending less on energy.

 
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