Defensive Scheme

[BigRedBuster]

I don't see other teams standing at the line controlling gaps against NU. We have the fastest QB in college football, and opposition defensive linemen are collapsing the pocket. How many of TM's fumbles were caused by a blind sided hit while he was in the pocket?

If memory serves correct, very few. Most of TM's fumbles happened when he left the pocket, whether by designed run or scrambling. I can think of a couple scrap examples where he was blindsided in a throw and lost the ball, but that was irregular. He typically has poor ball handling skills when running.

I'm about 90% positive exactly 2 were from blind sides in the pocket. Just from casual observation it seems like half his fumbles come when he gets near the sideline. I don't know what it is but he always seems fumbles going out of bounds or fumbles the ball out of bounds. Of course those aren't turnovers so it's not as big of a deal, but it's still a ball security issue.

I watched the Southern Miss game and the Arkansas State game on DVR in the last two weeks and off the top of my head I can remember two blindside hit/fumbles in the Ark State game alone. One accounted for Ark State's first TD and the other killed a Husker drive in the red zone.

I find it awfully hard to believe that it only happened twice and both happened in the same game.

Also one in Wisky game IIRC...Believe there was another time where it was a complete miracle that he didn't fumble (Maybe UGA?)

The QB has some responsibility with fumbling on blind side hits. BUT, I lay most of that on his protection on that side. I honestly don't know of a QB in history who hasn't fumbled because of a blind side hit. from time to time.

 

[knapplc]

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there? When's the last time we saw a D Lineman do that on a regular basis? A bit with Crick, a bit with Eric Martin, but otherwise the scheme notably changed to a simple containment setup with a slowly collapsing pocket. Bo decided to hold the QB in the pocket and let his (more talented) secondary cover the receivers.

You can't compare what we did the last two years with 2009. There is no Suh on this team, nor is there a Crick. We had nothing remotely comparable to that in this program the last two years, so saying "it worked in 2009" means nothing.

Regarding McBride's attacking scheme not working today because of the more mobile quarterbacks we're facing - that's hogwash, too. McBride's 1990s schemes worked just fine against Charlie Ward and Kordell Stewart, two guys off the top of my head who were better than anyone we've faced in the last few years. McBride's attacking defense would work just fine - it's just that it's not Bo's defense, so he's not going to run it. I have no problem with Bo not running McBride's defense, but whatever he chooses to run had damned well better be effective.

If Bo needs specific kinds of players to run his defense effectively then he had better go get those players and get this defense back to respectability. If he cannot get a Suh or a Crick for his D Line then he has to modify his scheme. He has to blitz more, he has to have a spy, he has to do something to offset the deficit in athleticism he has.

 

[BaytownHusker]

Bama's D attacks.. They seem to shut down most DUAL threat Qb's.. But of course they have better athletes on D.

 

[Landlord]

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there? When's the last time we saw a D Lineman do that on a regular basis? A bit with Crick, a bit with Eric Martin, but otherwise the scheme notably changed to a simple containment setup with a slowly collapsing pocket. Bo decided to hold the QB in the pocket and let his (more talented) secondary cover the receivers.

You can't compare what we did the last two years with 2009. There is no Suh on this team, nor is there a Crick. We had nothing remotely comparable to that in this program the last two years, so saying "it worked in 2009" means nothing.

I disagree with this. I distinctly remember Bo saying a number of times how incredible it was that Suh kept leading the team in tackles, because the scheme was set up in a way to where he wasn't supposed to. He was just that other-worldly. I don't know the X's and O's side of things very well, but I think what we ran conceptually was by and large the same idea, just turned more conservative.

 

[The Dude]

McBride's 1990s schemes worked just fine against Charlie Ward

 

[knapplc]

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there? When's the last time we saw a D Lineman do that on a regular basis? A bit with Crick, a bit with Eric Martin, but otherwise the scheme notably changed to a simple containment setup with a slowly collapsing pocket. Bo decided to hold the QB in the pocket and let his (more talented) secondary cover the receivers.

You can't compare what we did the last two years with 2009. There is no Suh on this team, nor is there a Crick. We had nothing remotely comparable to that in this program the last two years, so saying "it worked in 2009" means nothing.

I disagree with this. I distinctly remember Bo saying a number of times how incredible it was that Suh kept leading the team in tackles, because the scheme was set up in a way to where he wasn't supposed to. He was just that other-worldly. I don't know the X's and O's side of things very well, but I think what we ran conceptually was by and large the same idea, just turned more conservative.

Coach-speak.

 

[The Dude]

knapp, you bully. Stop changing your quote in my post. :lol:

 

[zoogs]

We have a bizarre blocking scheme where we release one or more D Linemen on many plays.

Isn't this just called "the zone read"?

Whatever that strategy is, it puts too much pressure on ball handling in the backfield, too early in the play. That's pressure we're putting on ourselves, by scheme, and it's stupid.

And isn't this the exact principle of the zone read, one of our deadliest plays on offense? Read the free defender at the mesh point and make the right call to get a good gain.

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there?

I don't think we're that different. Losing capable 5th and 6th defensive backs has probably forced some changes, but scheme wise the line back then was asked to do the same kind of things; it's what Bo does.

I'm not sure if we adjusted over the course of last year to be more attacking. But I'm with Landlord, Suh was just a special case. It was a huge boon for our defense to be able to wreak havoc like it did while employing that kind of scheme, I think.

 

[Enhance]

You have to adjust the scheme to fit the players, not the players to the scheme. This leaves you two options - either a) you recruit players to flourish in your scheme or b) you adjust the scheme to make your current players successful. There's a balance to be found between talent and scheme, as well. You can make up for poor talent by creating the correct scheme and good coaching. You can also make up for bad coaching by having a couple of very good players. It'll be really interesting to see how Pelini attacks this problem during the off season. He's not an idiot - he's know what he's doing. But, at times, it does feel like his head is a bit in the sand.

 

[The King]

Bama's D attacks.. They seem to shut down most DUAL threat Qb's.. But of course they have better athletes on D.

First of all, our defense is not BAMA.

Second of all, they played one truly elite dual threat QB and they lost to him.... They shut down Denard, yes, forced him to throw...

 

[da skers]

Bama's D attacks.. They seem to shut down most DUAL threat Qb's.. But of course they have better athletes on D.

First of all, our defense is not BAMA.

Second of all, they played one truly elite dual threat QB and they lost to him.... They shut down Denard, yes, forced him to throw...

Actually most of what Bama does is the exact same thing that we do (are teaching).

As is Georgia, as is LSU, as is about 10 other teams.

 

[The King]

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there? When's the last time we saw a D Lineman do that on a regular basis? A bit with Crick, a bit with Eric Martin, but otherwise the scheme notably changed to a simple containment setup with a slowly collapsing pocket. Bo decided to hold the QB in the pocket and let his (more talented) secondary cover the receivers.

You can't compare what we did the last two years with 2009. There is no Suh on this team, nor is there a Crick. We had nothing remotely comparable to that in this program the last two years, so saying "it worked in 2009" means nothing.

Regarding McBride's attacking scheme not working today because of the more mobile quarterbacks we're facing - that's hogwash, too. McBride's 1990s schemes worked just fine against Charlie Ward and Kordell Stewart, two guys off the top of my head who were better than anyone we've faced in the last few years. McBride's attacking defense would work just fine - it's just that it's not Bo's defense, so he's not going to run it. I have no problem with Bo not running McBride's defense, but whatever he chooses to run had damned well better be effective.

If Bo needs specific kinds of players to run his defense effectively then he had better go get those players and get this defense back to respectability. If he cannot get a Suh or a Crick for his D Line then he has to modify his scheme. He has to blitz more, he has to have a spy, he has to do something to offset the deficit in athleticism he has.

I think that speaks more about recruiting than it does scheme. The scheme is proven to work with the proper athletes, has it not? You don't need a Suh level player to make it work, but you need a better than average D Line.

Saying it worked in 2009 means that it did work at one point, while people constantly say that it doesn't work - when it does. It isn't coincidence that his scheme stopped working when our D, specifically DL and LB's became the least athletic and most average players on our D.

 

[The King]

Bama's D attacks.. They seem to shut down most DUAL threat Qb's.. But of course they have better athletes on D.

First of all, our defense is not BAMA.

Second of all, they played one truly elite dual threat QB and they lost to him.... They shut down Denard, yes, forced him to throw...

Actually most of what Bama does is the exact same thing that we do (are teaching).

As is Georgia, as is LSU, as is about 10 other teams.

Was speaking to the level of talent...

Not even comparable...

 

[The King]

Bama's D attacks.. They seem to shut down most DUAL threat Qb's.. But of course they have better athletes on D.

First of all, our defense is not BAMA.

Second of all, they played one truly elite dual threat QB and they lost to him.... They shut down Denard, yes, forced him to throw...

Actually most of what Bama does is the exact same thing that we do (are teaching).

As is Georgia, as is LSU, as is about 10 other teams.

Was speaking to the level of talent...

Not even comparable...

And I believe BAMA runs a 3-4 defense similar to Oregon, using a hybrid OLB as a DE or in coverage...

 

[Count 'Bility]

We weren't running the same defense in 2009. Have people forgotten so quickly that Suh was allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc back there? When's the last time we saw a D Lineman do that on a regular basis? A bit with Crick, a bit with Eric Martin, but otherwise the scheme notably changed to a simple containment setup with a slowly collapsing pocket. Bo decided to hold the QB in the pocket and let his (more talented) secondary cover the receivers.

You can't compare what we did the last two years with 2009. There is no Suh on this team, nor is there a Crick. We had nothing remotely comparable to that in this program the last two years, so saying "it worked in 2009" means nothing.

Regarding McBride's attacking scheme not working today because of the more mobile quarterbacks we're facing - that's hogwash, too. McBride's 1990s schemes worked just fine against Charlie Ward and Kordell Stewart, two guys off the top of my head who were better than anyone we've faced in the last few years. McBride's attacking defense would work just fine - it's just that it's not Bo's defense, so he's not going to run it. I have no problem with Bo not running McBride's defense, but whatever he chooses to run had damned well better be effective.

If Bo needs specific kinds of players to run his defense effectively then he had better go get those players and get this defense back to respectability. If he cannot get a Suh or a Crick for his D Line then he has to modify his scheme. He has to blitz more, he has to have a spy, he has to do something to offset the deficit in athleticism he has.

I have to disagree with the part about Suh being allowed to penetrate and wreak havoc. He wasnt. If you watch his games, he was so quick of the ball and so powerful and he utilized such perfect hand technique that it appeared he was shooting gaps, when actually he was just simply blowing up the offensive lineman within the scheme.

As far as McBride's type of attacking defense not working, that was never stated. I said it was a diferent game. I agree the McBrides scheme would work. There's give and take in any type of defense you choose to use. Unless youre the 85 bears, you cant cover every single angle. The game was different, Charlie Ward was no Braxton Miller, Kordell Stewart was no Vince Young, and the offenses were just flat out a different philosophy.