Boston Marathon Explosions

zoogies said:
tschu said:
Also, Senator McCain saying that an American citizen who committed a domestic crime should be held without rights as an enemy combatant is so lol. This is America, we have a constitution, we have our rights, and no matter how horrible the crime that was committed, we can't just pick and choose when to abide by the constitution. Read the kid his rights and put him on trial.
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They suspended his Miranda rights under a national security exception, and given he is a suspect in a domestic terrorist attack I'm not sure the matter of his citizenship should give him advantages that a foreign combatant is denied.

He engaged in foreign combatant activity against civilians on our soil.
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The first part is fine. I understand claiming the exemption because you don't know what else they planned, if they were alone, or whether they planted more devices. But you don't just forfeit a U.S. citizen's constitutional rights for actions on American soil without due process no matter how severe. If they were foreign nationals that would be a different story for me, but he's a U.S. citizen whether they like it or not. If he want's to revoke his citizenship then have at it, but until then he has his rights.

 
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Notre Dame Joe said:
In a ticking time bomb scenario, you don't give he man who knows where the bomb is planted a lawyer and wait 3 weeks while she works out a plea deal.
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in a ticking time bomb scenario (has there ever actually been one?) the person could put up with a lot and would just mislead law enforcement because detonation is imminent.

 
ZRod said:
The first part is fine. I understand claiming the exemption because you don't know what else they planned, if they were alone, or whether they planted more devices. But you don't just forfeit a U.S. citizen's constitutional rights for actions on American soil without due process no matter how severe. If they were foreign nationals that would be a different story for me, but he's a U.S. citizen whether they like it or not. If he want's to revoke his citizenship then have at it, but until then he has his rights.
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Isn't the premise here that he's engaged in actions the level of which revoke protections afforded to US citizens? I don't see that as being a black and white area.

tschu said:
So we should probably just waterboard him right?
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I guess that depends on how you feel about waterboarding. We don't do that anymore, though, right?

I'm saying all those who by their actions committed define themselves as either enemy combatants or terrorists on US soil should be treated according to the same procedures.

 
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This kid is no more a "foreign terrorist" than the doofus who shot up the Colorado movie theater or the rogue cop they had the manhunt for in L.A.

He deserves his rights just like any other suspect. We cannot stop being a nation of laws whenever it suits us.

 
knapplc said:
This kid is no more a "foreign terrorist" than the doofus who shot up the Colorado movie theater or the rogue cop they had the manhunt for in L.A.

He deserves his rights just like any other suspect. We cannot stop being a nation of laws whenever it suits us.
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Exactly. We don't even know why he did it in the first place. Even so why didn't they suspend the unibomber's rights? Or McVeigh, he was ex military after all?

 
So it came about because of a foreigner... I'm usually not a person to clamor on about our rights being taken away and what not, but when you start denying U.S. citizens rights well that's one slippery slope we shouldn't be going down.

 
ZRod said:
So it came about because of a foreigner... I'm usually not a person to clamor on about our rights being taken away and what not, but when you start denying U.S. citizens rights well that's one slippery slope we shouldn't be going down.
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I agree that it gets tricky but do not agree that it's an easy, black-and-white situation. The name escapes me at the moment but I'm thinking of the guy who joined Al-Qaeda and was taken out by a drone and thus didn't get his due process. I don't think you should be able to "hide" behind citizenship to actively plot against the US.

 
Mavric said:
ZRod said:
So it came about because of a foreigner... I'm usually not a person to clamor on about our rights being taken away and what not, but when you start denying U.S. citizens rights well that's one slippery slope we shouldn't be going down.
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I agree that it gets tricky but do not agree that it's an easy, black-and-white situation. The name escapes me at the moment but I'm thinking of the guy who joined Al-Qaeda and was taken out by a drone and thus didn't get his due process. I don't think you should be able to "hide" behind citizenship to actively plot against the US.
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You're right it's not black and white, but he was also on foreign soil and well known to be allied with a sworn enemy of the country. They've already set the precedent I guess and I'm not sure how I feel about that situation.

I know where I stand in this case though. Really what advantage is gained by with holding his rights, he still doesn't have to say anything. Barring torture, you'd never get anything out of him either way if he's a true nutcase hardliner.

 
ZRod said:
Mavric said:
ZRod said:
So it came about because of a foreigner... I'm usually not a person to clamor on about our rights being taken away and what not, but when you start denying U.S. citizens rights well that's one slippery slope we shouldn't be going down.
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I agree that it gets tricky but do not agree that it's an easy, black-and-white situation. The name escapes me at the moment but I'm thinking of the guy who joined Al-Qaeda and was taken out by a drone and thus didn't get his due process. I don't think you should be able to "hide" behind citizenship to actively plot against the US.
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You're right it's not black and white, but he was also on foreign soil and well known to be allied with a sworn enemy of the country. They've already set the precedent I guess and I'm not sure how I feel about that situation.

I know where I stand in this case though. Really what advantage is gained by with holding his rights, he still doesn't have to say anything. Barring torture, you'd never get anything out of him either way if he's a true nutcase hardliner.
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Agreed. As I said earlier, I'm not sure I understand their reasoning in this case.

 
Sounds like, if the younger brother hadn't lost his mind, BPD could have taken both of these guys alive:

At one point, the older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, came directly toward police, Deveau said.
"He all of a sudden comes out from under cover and just starts walking down the street, shooting at our police officers, trying to get closer," Deveau said. "Now, my closest officer is five to 10 feet away, and they're exchanging gunfire between them. And he runs out of ammunition -- the bad guy -- and so one of my police officers comes off the side and tackles him in the street.

"We're trying to get him handcuffed. There's two or three police officers handcuffing him in the street -- the older brother. At the same time, at the last minute -- they obviously have tunnel vision, it's a very, very stressful situation -- one of them yells out, 'Look out!' and here comes the black SUV, the carjacked car, directly at them. They dive out of the way, and he (the younger brother) drives over his brother and drags him a short distance down the street."
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LINK

 
knapplc said:
Sounds like, if the younger brother hadn't lost his mind, BPD could have taken both of these guys alive:

At one point, the older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, came directly toward police, Deveau said.
"He all of a sudden comes out from under cover and just starts walking down the street, shooting at our police officers, trying to get closer," Deveau said. "Now, my closest officer is five to 10 feet away, and they're exchanging gunfire between them. And he runs out of ammunition -- the bad guy -- and so one of my police officers comes off the side and tackles him in the street.

"We're trying to get him handcuffed. There's two or three police officers handcuffing him in the street -- the older brother. At the same time, at the last minute -- they obviously have tunnel vision, it's a very, very stressful situation -- one of them yells out, 'Look out!' and here comes the black SUV, the carjacked car, directly at them. They dive out of the way, and he (the younger brother) drives over his brother and drags him a short distance down the street."
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Jeez. I guess it's kinda funny in a way that he off'd his own brother.

 
Screw this guys rights. He's only been a legal citizen for only 7 months and pulls off an horrific event in a major city of Boston using bombs not far from New York City which suffered one of the worst tragedies in US history.

Our legal system is a joke after experiencing as a correctional officer for the last 7 years and not only did the city of Boston suffer from a horrific event but they'll be stuck paying for this pukes meals, cable and a roof over his head for decades.

 
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