What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[BigRedBuster]

I found this survey very interesting.

LINK

The Pew Research Center's [/size]

massive new report on American political and social beliefs reveals some fascinating nuances in American public opinion, which they've divided into seven ideological groups. But one surprising area where views seem to converge is on the question of African-American advancement.[/size]

Thoughts???

 

[carlfense]

I think that it's a blurry combination of both.

I think that overt, direct, racism is much less common today than it was 50 years ago. (For example, someone being denied a certain job solely because of his or her race.)

That said, blacks are still very much the victims of our sad legacy of racism, segregation, and even slavery. (For example, many black children have been raised at a significant disadvantage due to familial and cultural circumstances that can be directly tied to our history.)

So, to sum up my disjointed rambling, yes "discrimination" (I'm using a broad definition) is a main reason why blacks can't get ahead. That said, we aren't purely products of our environment and our history (and to a somewhat lesser extent instances of present day racial discrimination) should be used to address the issue and not to excuse the issue.

 

[LukeinNE]

What immediately comes to mind (in no particular order and almost certainly not comprehensive):

-Overt racism/discrimination that still exists today

-The Drug War

-Too many welfare programs are anesthetics for economic pain, not treatments for the cause of that pain

-Legacy of slavery/Jim Crow

-Disdain by some black Americans for things that are too "white" - education, legitimate jobs

-Identity politics, committed by both sides to exploit racial tensions and promote favoritism in policy

-Racial and economic segregation

-Failure of schools in inner city areas

-No strong family culture within the black community

-Cultural decay leading to drug use, high teen pregnancy rates, violence.

-Ease of acquiring tools of destruction for the formerly mentioned things

 

[BigRedBuster]

I took the quiz to see where they would put me on the political spectrum. They have some interesting categories.

Not surprisingly, they stuck me in the "Business conservative" group. However, I hate questions like those with only two answers. Most of the time I don't agree with either answer. After taking the quiz, I clicked on "Young Outsiders" and actually think that might be where I probably should be. Hey.....I am young......to some people. I sure as hell am an outsider.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I scratch my head over the exact question put forth in the survey.

Is discrimination the main reason why blacks can't advance?

Hmmm....well....are you talking about a 60 year old black person who grew up through the 60s and 70s? Or, are you talking about if a kid today was born, what is the main reason why they can't advance? To me, there is a huge difference.

Anyone who claims there isn't racism now is an idiot. However, someone who claims a kid born today can't get ahead mainly because of racism is not being fair to anyone.

I would say the answer to the survey for the 60 year old is probably yes. I would say the answer for the kid born today is probably no.

 

[LukeinNE]

I took the quiz to see where they would put me on the political spectrum. They have some interesting categories.

Not surprisingly, they stuck me in the "Business conservative" group. However, I hate questions like those with only two answers. Most of the time I don't agree with either answer. After taking the quiz, I clicked on "Young Outsiders" and actually think that might be where I probably should be. Hey.....I am young......to some people. I sure as hell am an outsider.

Yeah, they put me in "Young Outsiders" but looking at their classification map, it's pretty clear I was just a different answer or two away from being a "Business Conservative."

What I found interesting was the common ground shared by more centrist-leaning groups of each party: skepticism of big government and traditional values, each a primary focus of one of the major parties. Because of the way our elections laws are set up, I seriously doubt we'll ever have a credible third party, but I do think its only a matter of time before we see something of an ideological convergence between the parties and it'll be these groups leading that movement.

 

[strigori]

I scratch my head over the exact question put forth in the survey.

Is discrimination the main reason why blacks can't advance?

Hmmm....well....are you talking about a 60 year old black person who grew up through the 60s and 70s? Or, are you talking about if a kid today was born, what is the main reason why they can't advance? To me, there is a huge difference.

Anyone who claims there isn't racism now is an idiot. However, someone who claims a kid born today can't get ahead mainly because of racism is not being fair to anyone.

I would say the answer to the survey for the 60 year old is probably yes. I would say the answer for the kid born today is probably no.

The caveat I would raise is that there is a segment of businesses that will go right on past an application or resume with a non-traditional name.

But as a whole, a simplistic question like that does not have enough depth to handle all the nuances of what is happening in the world.

 

[tschu]

What immediately comes to mind (in no particular order and almost certainly not comprehensive):

-Overt racism/discrimination that still exists today

-The Drug War

-Too many welfare programs are anesthetics for economic pain, not treatments for the cause of that pain

-Legacy of slavery/Jim Crow

-Disdain by some black Americans for things that are too "white" - education, legitimate jobs

-Identity politics, committed by both sides to exploit racial tensions and promote favoritism in policy

-Racial and economic segregation

-Failure of schools in inner city areas

-No strong family culture within the black community

-Cultural decay leading to drug use, high teen pregnancy rates, violence.

-Ease of acquiring tools of destruction for the formerly mentioned things

This.

How are all of the blacks supposed to make progress when they have in general the worst schools, the poorest families, very poor neighborhoods and living conditions, etc etc etc.

I agree that straight-up racism is much less of a problem. It's the discriminatory practices, the fact that it's all but impossible to get out of the inner city, and stuff like this article talks about. http://www.vox.com/2014/4/30/5665778/americas-real-racism-problem-doesnt-look-like-donald-sterling

"Responsible for their own condition" - lololol. Give me a break. That's a terrible lack of basic awareness of the world around you. Or willful ignorance.

 

[tschu]

"Racial Discrimination" means many, many things. It can mean white supremacy, the N-word and all that. But that's not common...it's the systemic disadvantages that truly make up what we call racism today. I always laugh when people get offended "hey! i'm not racist! i have black friends" ...but then that person is also against food stamps, against medicaid, against government housing, against anything that would help blacks dig themselves out of a deep, deep hole.

Also, don't worry guys, Creighton Duke will inevitably pop in to ask us "Well if you believe that, why aren't you doing anything about it" or some nonsense like that, just throwing that out there

 

[Creighton Duke]

"Racial Discrimination" means many, many things. It can mean white supremacy, the N-word and all that. But that's not common...it's the systemic disadvantages that truly make up what we call racism today. I always laugh when people get offended "hey! i'm not racist! i have black friends" ...but then that person is also against food stamps, against medicaid, against government housing, against anything that would help blacks dig themselves out of a deep, deep hole.

Also, don't worry guys, Creighton Duke will inevitably pop in to ask us "Well if you believe that, why aren't you doing anything about it" or some nonsense like that, just throwing that out there

None of that "nonsense" today, but your profiling/stereotyping is surely appreciated.

 

[NUance]

The birthrate among single mothers also varied along educational, socioeconomic and racial barriers. Sixty-eight percent of black women who had given birth in the past year were unmarried, compared to 11 percent of Asian women, 43 percent of hispanics and 26 percent of non-Hispanic whites. LINK

Sure racial discrimination plays some part. But I think the high percentage of black babies born to unwed mothers may be an even larger contributing factor. It's tough in today's economy for a single parent to help a kid get ahead in life. Especially if the single parent herself (or himself) lacks a college degree. (I don't know what percentage of unwed black mothers lack a degree, but I'd guess it's a healthy percentage.)

 

[sd'sker]

if they are referencing the shadow of jim crow laws when they ask if racism is preventing advancement, then i agree. there still is not a level playing field. but blacks can advance and overcome the history of racism. i do not think current racism is as much of a hindrance as the remnants of the history of societal racism. i mean, doc brown is the head coach of a pretty good franchise, even though the owner is a terrible racist. might not be the best point, but it demonstrates where society is compared to individuals when it comes to overt racism. but the problem is that when people get ahead, they bring their friends with them and people within their social sphere. unfortunately, social spheres do not interact too much so whole groups get left out.

as for the quiz, there were a few questions where i went against my preconceived notion (at least i knew i was answering against my leanings), but it was mostly because of the broad structure of the question.

 

[sd'sker]

The birthrate among single mothers also varied along educational, socioeconomic and racial barriers. Sixty-eight percent of black women who had given birth in the past year were unmarried, compared to 11 percent of Asian women, 43 percent of hispanics and 26 percent of non-Hispanic whites. LINK

Sure racial discrimination plays some part. But I think the high percentage of black babies born to unwed mothers may be an even larger contributing factor. It's tough in today's economy for a single parent to help a kid get ahead in life. Especially if the single parent herself (or himself) lacks a college degree. (I don't know what percentage of unwed black mothers lack a degree, but I'd guess it's a healthy percentage.)

that's the cyclical nature of these problems that have deep and long standing roots. no one would disagree that not having kids before marriage and getting an education would help mitigate these problems, but i think we would be foolish not to think these problems are at least related to the history of racism.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

The factors that contribute to, or are responsible for, African-Americans from advancing are not limited to that demographic. The reality is that most of the factors are socioeconomic. Whites that are born into lower socioeconomic conditions "fail" at very similar rates. What it amounts to is that those factors are so staggering they act as a built-in headwind that are ALMOST impossible to overcome. The reason it seems more prevalent in the black community is due to the fact that the black community as a whole started in abject circumstances - therefore, fewer percentage-wise ever succeeded.

Poverty is a b!^@h, in other words. Less family infrastructure, less mental stimulation (lack of reading material or desire to read), less ambition (just getting by day-to-day is a major accomplishment and can consume all their resources), and so on. It can crush both the spirit and the ambition.