What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[LukeinNE]

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

It makes you more likely to be present and active in the home, which, yes, indeed does make you a better parent.

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

The case has been made in this thread, implicitly and explicitly, that the main reason for blacks not advancing in America is pervasive racism and discrimination. I'm wondering how such discrimination could be taking place in Detroit when blacks run the show there. In short, I'm not implying anything about Detroit. I'm citing Detroit as an example where the effects of white racism should be at its nadir, considering they've been largely removed from the city's levers of power and police force....and yet blacks haven't prospered there, either. My implication is that white discrimination is a convenient, but grossly overblown scapegoat for the problems that plague blacks in this country.

 

[StPaulHusker]

How many of those can be tied to an overall problem of discrimination in nearly every aspect of life?

Malcolm X and other black separatists ascribed to much this same line of thought: blacks could not and would not advance in a society dominated by white people. That white discrimination simply made this impossible. Therefore, they said, it is desirable for blacks to be separate to the greatest extent possible from the rest of the American community. Malcolm X's dream has come to pass in the form of Detroit: 80% black, 10% white, the city council has 1 white member (out of 9). Detroit just elected its first non-black mayor in 20 years. Detroit's police chief is black. Detroit's police force is 2/3 black. Black people run most everything of importance in Detroit. It is inconceivable that black residents in Detroit face "discrimination in nearly every aspect of life." Many of the things that social justice warriors have called for as fixes to the plight of black people in this country have been implemented in Detroit - and Detroit is now one of America's worst cities. In order to make the case that discrimination is the main cause of black failings, one must explain Detroit.

And if you think that the black community doesn't have a strong family culture....

Strong family culture as evidenced by what? The 70%+ out of wedlock birth rate? The highest percentage - by far - of fathers not living with their kids among all races? The lowest marriage rate among all races? The highest divorce rate among those who do get married?

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

Junior, no where did Luke say that being married made you a better parent. He showed 4 areas where the term "strong family culture" can be debated.

 

[Junior]

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

It makes you more likely to be present and active in the home, which, yes, indeed does make you a better parent.

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

The case has been made in this thread, implicitly and explicitly, that the main reason for blacks not advancing in America is pervasive racism and discrimination. I'm wondering how such discrimination could be taking place in Detroit when blacks run the show there. In short, I'm not implying anything about Detroit. I'm citing Detroit as an example where the effects of white racism should be at its nadir, considering they've been largely removed from the city's levers of power and police force....and yet blacks haven't prospered there, either. My implication is that white discrimination is a convenient, but grossly overblown scapegoat for the problems that plague blacks in this country.

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

Ford?

GM?

Chrysler?

Maybe Quicken Loans?

Who else would be powerful in Detroit? Maybe the head of the UAW?

Think the State of Michigan might have some role in Detroit? Seeing as how it is in Michigan and all...

What about the Michigan State Police, which would also have jurisdiction in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Being married makes you magically a better parent?

It makes you more likely to be present and active in the home, which, yes, indeed does make you a better parent.

So what are you implying about Detroit? Because I can easily explain the problems in Detroit without invoking race... But you seem to have an idea in your head about it and I'm curious as to exactly what that is.

The case has been made in this thread, implicitly and explicitly, that the main reason for blacks not advancing in America is pervasive racism and discrimination. I'm wondering how such discrimination could be taking place in Detroit when blacks run the show there. In short, I'm not implying anything about Detroit. I'm citing Detroit as an example where the effects of white racism should be at its nadir, considering they've been largely removed from the city's levers of power and police force....and yet blacks haven't prospered there, either. My implication is that white discrimination is a convenient, but grossly overblown scapegoat for the problems that plague blacks in this country.

Luke,

I don't want to derail your argument because I see where you are going and I somewhat agree that looking at Detroit is an interesting case study. The problem with looking at detroit though is that one reason nobody has prospered there is because no company in their right mind wants to relocate to Detroit and that has absolutely nothing to do with black people or racism.

Now, what would be interesting to look at is what is the arrest rate, prosecution rate...etc. in Detroit black communities compared to places like Ferguson knowing that the management and police force in Detroit resembles the general population much closer.

Also....and this gets back to much of the discussion I had about the article I posted about elections. It was implied that black people in Ferguson just can't get onto the city council, become mayor or get on the police force because there is just too much racism built into the system and part of that is when the elections are held and that they are nonpartisan.

I am very interested in how Detroit made this happen. How did the community in Detroit get their city management to reflect the population when other cities just can't do it?

 

[LukeinNE]

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

Point to the discrimination in Detroit, then. Please tell me how the CEOs of the big auto companies are hurting blacks in Detroit. Or how suburban whites have much of anything to do with the inner city woes of Detroit. How the majority black police force targets black youths. Or how the majority black city government writes discriminatory statutes targeted at blacks.

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

 

[Junior]

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

Point to the discrimination in Detroit, then. Please tell me how the CEOs of the big auto companies are hurting blacks in Detroit. Or how suburban whites have much of anything to do with the inner city woes of Detroit. How the majority black police force targets black youths. Or how the majority black city government writes discriminatory statutes targeted at blacks.

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

The struggles of Detroit are related to the ability of people to get jobs. With the fall of the auto industry, we saw the fall of Detroit. You know this.

 

[Creighton Duke]

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

Point to the discrimination in Detroit, then. Please tell me how the CEOs of the big auto companies are hurting blacks in Detroit. Or how suburban whites have much of anything to do with the inner city woes of Detroit. How the majority black police force targets black youths. Or how the majority black city government writes discriminatory statutes targeted at blacks.

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

The struggles of Detroit are related to the ability of people to get jobs. With the fall of the auto industry, we saw the fall of Detroit. You know this.

So why do you think that those involved with Detroit's economic development have failed so miserably in attracting new industry to the city?

 

[Junior]

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

Point to the discrimination in Detroit, then. Please tell me how the CEOs of the big auto companies are hurting blacks in Detroit. Or how suburban whites have much of anything to do with the inner city woes of Detroit. How the majority black police force targets black youths. Or how the majority black city government writes discriminatory statutes targeted at blacks.

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

The struggles of Detroit are related to the ability of people to get jobs. With the fall of the auto industry, we saw the fall of Detroit. You know this.

So why do you think that those involved with Detroit's economic development have failed so miserably in attracting new industry to the city?

Because of the population loss, Detroit's financial instability.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/02/05/a-declining-population-and-city-revenues-meant-that-detroits-bankruptcy-could-not-have-been-avoided/

 

[StPaulHusker]

So you think that because the public office holders are black there is no discrimination? Who would you say are the largest employers in Detroit?

That's not to say that any of these people are racist, but the idea that racism doesn't exist because the mayor is black is laughable. The President of the United States is black... so RACISM HAS BEEN VANQUISHED!

Additionally, there's more to Detroit than Detroit city proper. The Detroit metro area has a demographic break down as follows:

70% White

22.8% Black

And as a person that lived three years in Michigan, I can assure you Detroit isn't the only area that is suffering in that state. The struggles of "Detroit" should probably be labeled as "southeast Michigan". Detroit is just a convenient phrase to use, like you would say you are going to Omaha if you are driving from Lincoln to LaVista.

Point to the discrimination in Detroit, then. Please tell me how the CEOs of the big auto companies are hurting blacks in Detroit. Or how suburban whites have much of anything to do with the inner city woes of Detroit. How the majority black police force targets black youths. Or how the majority black city government writes discriminatory statutes targeted at blacks.

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

The struggles of Detroit are related to the ability of people to get jobs. With the fall of the auto industry, we saw the fall of Detroit. You know this.

So why do you think that those involved with Detroit's economic development have failed so miserably in attracting new industry to the city?

Because of the population loss, Detroit's financial instability.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/02/05/a-declining-population-and-city-revenues-meant-that-detroits-bankruptcy-could-not-have-been-avoided/

Which falls squarely on the shoulders of the people running the city, does it not?

 

[LukeinNE]

So why do you think that those involved with Detroit's economic development have failed so miserably in attracting new industry to the city?

Nothing to do with the city's annual tradition of mass arson the night before Halloween, I'm sure.

 

[Junior]

Which falls squarely on the shoulders of the people running the city, does it not?

Not entirely. Also falls on Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They are the ones who laid off employees.

 

[Landlord]

I'm not making the case that Detroit is failing because it's black, I'm wondering about why, if blacks get to make the rules and enforce them in Detroit, do the blacks in Detroit look....pretty much like every other black community in the country that is supposedly failing under the constant pressure of white racism?

Black people have a tough time in Detroit, but white people do too, do they not?

That's kind of the point - you can't compare one black community to another, you compare that black community to the white community in the same place. Even though it's all sh**ty, my guess is that it's more equally sh**ty for everyone there.

 

[LukeinNE]

Black people have a tough time in Detroit, but white people do too, do they not?

That's kind of the point - you can't compare one black community to another, you compare that black community to the white community in the same place. Even though it's all sh**ty, my guess is that it's more equally sh**ty for everyone there.

I guess it would depend on what one's definition of "equally sh#tty" would be. Whites in the Detroit metro area do much, much better than blacks do.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Which falls squarely on the shoulders of the people running the city, does it not?

Not entirely. Also falls on Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They are the ones who laid off employees.

Layoffs happen all the time in every city. No place is immune. If you have good leadership running a place, they find a way to convince companies to rehire or convince new companies to move there. Ford, GM, and Chrysler spent billions over the years in that city. What's to show for it?

 

[Junior]

Which falls squarely on the shoulders of the people running the city, does it not?

Not entirely. Also falls on Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They are the ones who laid off employees.

Layoffs happen all the time in every city. No place is immune. If you have good leadership running a place, they find a way to convince companies to rehire or convince new companies to move there. Ford, GM, and Chrysler spent billions over the years in that city. What's to show for it?

Maybe companies don't want to move there because the African American population is too high and they are racist

Look, I'm not saying the city government is immune from criticism here. Kwame Kilpatrick was a huge problem all by himself... but you have to acknowledge there are far more factors at play in this situation than "black citizens have a black mayor therefore black citizens should be rich". That's mind numbingly simplistic.