What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[BigRedBuster]

You guys are so far off on why jobs aren't coming back to Detroit. It is a problem that stemmed from the extremely heavily unionized auto industry. It is common knowledge in industry that the Detroit work force still has an entitlement mentality and it is extremely difficult to do business there as a manufacturer because of it.

This has nothing to do with black or white. It has nothing to do with city management. The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan have spent literally millions of dollars to attract industry there and nobody wants to go. Why would you go there and immediately face workers who (even though they really need a job) feel they are entitled to much higher wages etc than what you can go many other places in the country and the workers are happy to see you?

Now, if you want to keep going down this rabbit trail, there is another thread here about that.

However, the much bigger question for me is since management in the city and the police force are mostly black like the population, does the black population feel threatened by the police like Ferguson? Are they arrested at much higher rates than whites? Are the prosecuted at a much higher rate than whites? These are the issues that is the main cause of the riots in Ferguson and it is in large part being blamed on the fact that not many black people are in city management.

Agreed on all accounts.

There are a slew of reasons why Detroit has the problems they do. My irritation is with Luke's insistance that since there are black elected officials in Detroit, the black citizens should be doing as well as whites economically. You ask where he said that; read his various posts. That's the implication.

You claimed he said, "Because there was a black mayer black people should be rich". Am I to assume this is simply an over exaggeration to make a point? Just because someone doesn't have discrimination against them doesn't mean they are rich. And, taking away discrimination alone is not going to make poor black people rich.

The original discussion was that city management in Ferguson is not black like the population so therefore, they are probably victims of more racism which manifests itself in more arrests, more police harassment, more convictions of petty crimes...etc.

The question I see Luke asking is...in Detroit, are these issues less? If so, why can't Ferguson do accomplish this?

 

[Junior]

There are a slew of reasons why Detroit has the problems they do. My irritation is with Luke's insistance that since there are black elected officials in Detroit, the black citizens should be doing as well as whites economically. You ask where he said that; read his various posts. That's the implication.

I haven't said or implied that either, if I did, it was purely accidental. My question is very simple, and narrow: discrimination against blacks has been cited as a major reason blacks can't advance in this country. Detroit has implemented many remedies to this alleged problem. I'll be even more specific for you: a good deal of this thread has focused on racism being responsible for the disparity in arrests between blacks and whites, as a direct result of white officers patrolling black neighborhoods. Has having a majority-black police force in Detroit made any difference in the arrest rate of blacks in that city?

Surely you can see my confusion in citing Detroit as "one of the worst cities in American", their economic woes, and bringing up the mean income chart you did earlier in the thread...

I don't know about arrest rates, you'd have to tell me. And you would have to include statistics from metro Detroit, Wayne County, and the Michigan State Patrol, not just Detroit proper.

And you are ignoring the reality. Poverty breeds crime, and no one here is arguing against the idea that Detroit is poor. You asked earlier what suburban whites have to do with inner city Detroit? Well, they definitely bailed the city. With good reason, largely. But they left the poor blacks in the inner city with their crumbling schools and infrastructure. And the state leaders of Michigan voted to withdraw economic support to the city of Detroit. You have to be able to acknowledge there is more to the situation in Detroit and the economic and social success of Detroit's black community than simply having a black mayor and a mostly black police force.

 

[LukeinNE]

Surely you can see my confusion in citing Detroit as "one of the worst cities in American", their economic woes, and bringing up the mean income chart you did earlier in the thread...

To be sure, by just about any metric, Detroit is one of America's worst cities. I brought up the crime rate in my last post because it's too specific to hide behind generalities and seems a good candidate for examination on the police bias issue. As far as the statistics you requested...congrats the arrest rate in Detroit is slightly lower than that of Wayne County and Michigan.....however the reported crimes per capita in Detroit are roughly 20 percent higher than in Wayne County and nearly 60 percent higher than the state as a whole. So the lower arrest rate has nothing to do with police effectiveness, rather the opposite.

Poverty breeds crime, and no one here is arguing against the idea that Detroit is poor.

There are plenty of areas in Appalachia that are every bit as poor as Detroit, and yet those areas do not suffer from crime epidemics. Poverty is part, not all of the crime problem.

 

[Junior]

Surely you can see my confusion in citing Detroit as "one of the worst cities in American", their economic woes, and bringing up the mean income chart you did earlier in the thread...

To be sure, by just about any metric, Detroit is one of America's worst cities. I brought up the crime rate in my last post because it's too specific to hide behind generalities and seems a good candidate for examination on the police bias issue. As far as the statistics you requested...congrats the arrest rate in Detroit is slightly lower than that of Wayne County and Michigan.....however the reported crimes per capita in Detroit are roughly 20 percent higher than in Wayne County and nearly 60 percent higher than the state as a whole. So the lower arrest rate has nothing to do with police effectiveness, rather the opposite.

Poverty breeds crime, and no one here is arguing against the idea that Detroit is poor.

There are plenty of areas in Appalachia that are every bit as poor as Detroit, and yet those areas do not suffer from crime epidemics. Poverty is part, not all of the crime problem.

And they aren't as heavily populated, or as densely populated.

As to the other comments I made in my post... No response?

 

[Junior]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/24/my-son-has-been-suspended-five-times-hes-3/

Black children represent 18 percent of preschool enrollment but make up 48 percent of preschool children receiving more than one out-of-school suspension, according to the study released by the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights in March.

A recent study published by the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that the subjects — mostly white, female undergraduates — viewed black boys as older and less innocent than their white peers. When photos of children were paired with descriptions of crimes, the subjects judged the black children to be more culpable for their actions than their white or Latino counterparts and estimated that they were an average of 4.5 years older than they actually were.

 

[lo country]

An interesting tweet.

Retweeted by Kyler Reed
Lecrae @lecrae · 13h

Dear Hip Hop, we can't scream "murder, misogyny, lawlessness" in our music & then turn around and ask for equality & justice.

While there is some slight merit to his statement, a lot of non-whites listen to rap and hip hop too. Whether I listen to Dylan or Snoop Dogg, it should have no bearing on my ability to walk down the street and not get shot.

Lecrae is a Christian rapper solo and with 116. He is basically saying that rap music can not glamorize a "gangster" lifestyle and then ask for equality and justice. You can't break into stores, rob, burn stuff, defy the curfew, F the police, shoot at the police, throw molotov cocktails and then try to be taken seriously having a dialogue about getting justice and fair treatment. (This is not all of the persons', but the ones Lecrae is speaking at IMO)

 

[tschu]

You can essentially boil a very large percentage of the problem blacks face down to just plain old poverty...which cripples blacks more than any other race in America. The biases and discriminations are real, but at this point probably secondary to the poverty problem. And the poverty problem has very deep roots; blacks largely literally had zero capital nor means to gain it for a long time (in slave states). Then were actively discriminated against for a century. Any those who immigrate here come from very very poor countries (compared to, say "Asians" in general who immigrate from countries which are generally educated and not poor). Add in the cyclical nature of poverty and there's a lot of the reason for the current plight. Any perceived "cultural" problems (such as, they hate whites and stuff whites do therefore they don't want jobs, or whatever) is largely bullsh#t.

 

[Omaha-Husker]

I thought this was an interesting piece. No idea who the writer is, but someone posted it on the Facebook and I liked it.

http://manicpixiedreammama.com/a-mothers-white-privilege/

I have three sons, two years between each. They are various shades of blond, various shades of pinkish-white, and will probably end up dressing in polo shirts and button downs most of the time. Their eyes are blue and green. Basically, I’m raising the physical embodiment of The Man, times three. The White is strong in these ones.

Clerks do not follow my sons around the store, presuming they might steal something.

Their normal kid stuff – tantrums, running, shouting – these are chalked up to being children, not to being non-white.

People do not assume that, with three children, I am scheming to cheat the welfare system.

When I wrap them on my back, no one thinks I’m going native, or that I must be from somewhere else.

When my sons are teenagers, I will not worry about them leaving the house. I will worry – that they’ll crash the car, or impregnate a girl, or engage in the same stupidness endemic to teenagers everywhere.

I will not worry that the police will shoot them.

If their car breaks down, I will not worry that people they ask for help will call the police, who will shoot them.

I will not worry that people will mistake a toy pistol for a real one andgun them down in the local Wal-Mart.

In fact, if my sons so desire, they will be able to carry firearms openly.Perhaps in Chipotle or Target.

They will walk together, all three, through our suburban neighborhood. People will think, Look at those kids out for a walk. They will not think, Look at those punks casing the joint.

People will assume they are intelligent. No one will say they are “well-spoken” when they break out SAT words. Women will not cross the street when they see them. Nor will they clutch their purses tighter.

My sons will never be mistaken for stealing their own cars, orentering their own houses.

This is basically another person's take on what Peggy McIntosh suggested in 1988 when she wrote "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."

http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

The same concept as the gif's in Landlord's post too.

 

[tschu]

Very good article, Junior.

 

[Micheal]

Just out of this whole thing, I get that people are upset right now, but why take that anger out on the business people of Ferguson? I don't see other protests around the country for different causes that involve looting. I feel it really weakens your call for justice as you rob places and set them aflame.

 

[knapplc]

Just out of this whole thing, I get that people are upset right now, but why take that anger out on the business people of Ferguson? I don't see other protests around the country for different causes that involve looting. I feel it really weakens your call for justice as you rob places and set them aflame.

Sheer ignorance & thuggery. No other explanation. "I'm mad so I'm going to break something."

One of my sister's friends said this (she was white) when we were kids. She was "so upset" over some teenage girl BS that she had to break something, so my sister got her a glass & this idiot shattered it on our basement floor. It's immature childish BS that drives this, a lack of consequence-grasping and selfishness.

In poverty-stricken places, no matter the root of that poverty or what/who created it or why, that ignorance persists. One is not destined to thuggery because they grew up in poverty. The gangs/drugs/violence cycle is not inevitable - it's just the path of least resistance. And once that mindset takes hold it's terribly difficult to remove.

So what happens is, people with that selfish, "I'm mad so I'm going to break something" mentality use situations like Ferguson (and Watts, Chicago, Miami, et al) to smash windows & burn stuff.

The self-infliction of these wounds doesn't factor in to the immediacy of the pleasure they gain from the vandalism. There's a bit of "buyer's remorse" after the fact, but it's less in this kind of individual.

The real victims of these morons are the residents in these poverty-stricken areas who don't want to act the hooligan, who just want to live a normal life, improve their lot, but are trapped by a variety of socioeconomic factors. After the dust settles their local shopping establishments are busted up/burned, and some simply close shop, leaving the local residents with fewer choices, lower quality, and often higher prices due to lack of competition and the "danger zone" factor of doing business in such an area.

The destruction by these hooligans helps fuel the poverty in the area.

 

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Racist company wants to take away minority jobs

http://ovens.reviewed.com/news/will-this-burger-bot-smash-americas-fast-food-jobs?utm_source=usat&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=collab

According to the company, the burger-making bot is also more consistent and more sanitary than human chefs, and—here’s the meat of the matter—can produce roughly 360 burgers per hour, or one burger every 10 seconds.

Momentum co-founder Alexandros Vardakostas doesn't beat about the bush in explaining the ultimate goal of his machine:

“Our device isn’t meant to make employees more efficient,” he told Xconomy. “It’s meant to completely obviate them.”

We all know fast food jobs are disproportionately filled by minorities so this is just another way to keep them in poverty.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Racist company wants to take away minority jobs

http://ovens.reviewed.com/news/will-this-burger-bot-smash-americas-fast-food-jobs?utm_source=usat&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=collab

According to the company, the burger-making bot is also more consistent and more sanitary than human chefs, and—here’s the meat of the matter—can produce roughly 360 burgers per hour, or one burger every 10 seconds.

Momentum co-founder Alexandros Vardakostas doesn't beat about the bush in explaining the ultimate goal of his machine:

“Our device isn’t meant to make employees more efficient,” he told Xconomy. “It’s meant to completely obviate them.”

We all know fast food jobs are disproportionately filled by minorities so this is just another way to keep them in poverty.

OK...I'm trying to follow.

So, what makes this company racist?

 

[BigRedBuster]

Just out of this whole thing, I get that people are upset right now, but why take that anger out on the business people of Ferguson? I don't see other protests around the country for different causes that involve looting. I feel it really weakens your call for justice as you rob places and set them aflame.

Sheer ignorance & thuggery. No other explanation. "I'm mad so I'm going to break something."

One of my sister's friends said this (she was white) when we were kids. She was "so upset" over some teenage girl BS that she had to break something, so my sister got her a glass & this idiot shattered it on our basement floor. It's immature childish BS that drives this, a lack of consequence-grasping and selfishness.

In poverty-stricken places, no matter the root of that poverty or what/who created it or why, that ignorance persists. One is not destined to thuggery because they grew up in poverty. The gangs/drugs/violence cycle is not inevitable - it's just the path of least resistance. And once that mindset takes hold it's terribly difficult to remove.

So what happens is, people with that selfish, "I'm mad so I'm going to break something" mentality use situations like Ferguson (and Watts, Chicago, Miami, et al) to smash windows & burn stuff.

The self-infliction of these wounds doesn't factor in to the immediacy of the pleasure they gain from the vandalism. There's a bit of "buyer's remorse" after the fact, but it's less in this kind of individual.

The real victims of these morons are the residents in these poverty-stricken areas who don't want to act the hooligan, who just want to live a normal life, improve their lot, but are trapped by a variety of socioeconomic factors. After the dust settles their local shopping establishments are busted up/burned, and some simply close shop, leaving the local residents with fewer choices, lower quality, and often higher prices due to lack of competition and the "danger zone" factor of doing business in such an area.

The destruction by these hooligans helps fuel the poverty in the area.

What's even more frustrating is that more and more reports are coming out that the many of the people who come out at night and cause problems are not from Ferguson. Obviously they are there to only incite violence and cause problems. If that truly is the case, then I have less of a problem with how the police have been handling them.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Interesting report I listened to on the way to work this morning.

LINK