Armstrong at QB

[lo country]

Bo made a comment that TA had poor fundamentals in his passing game.....i guess this is the best we got? at this point in the season?? reminds me of TM...we haven't had a decent throwing QB in years........hard to run a good spread offense when your guy can't throw worth a damn!.....

Its called Beck ball. If TA or TM were Reesing we would look great. Forgot who said it, but Bo wants scheme A and he got stuck with 2 plan B's in Wats and Beck. Odd he hired Beck, but they still appear to have a different concept than what Bo wants. This from the last presser.

 

[True2tRA]

It has been mentioned that TA should have taken more check down routes and Bo mentioned this play post-game. This is the play before the Pick Six. Obviously, TA really wanted to throw to Westerkamp in the back of the end zone but if he throws to Turner right now it's an easy six. He eventually short hops it at Turner's feet as Turner is standing on the sideline.

Crazy how a little "mistake" can get magnified.

Question 1. How are you taking these screenshots and positing them? 2. Where is Westerkamp in this photo and where is Turner?

 

[Mavric]

Question 1. How are you taking these screenshots and positing them? 2. Where is Westerkamp in this photo and where is Turner?

1 - Pausing the video, taking a screen shot, uploading to ImageShack then linking it here

2 - Westerkamp is the far left receiver, just crossing the one yard line. Tuner is on about the eight yard line outside the far hash.

 

[QMany]

Westerkamp is on the 1 yard line heading towards the corner. Jamal is in the flat (wide open after an apparent pick play).

 

[True2tRA]

Question 1. How are you taking these screenshots and positing them? 2. Where is Westerkamp in this photo and where is Turner?

1 - Pausing the video, taking a screen shot, uploading to ImageShack then linking it here2 - Westerkamp is the far left receiver, just crossing the one yard line. Tuner is on about the eight yard line outside the far hash.

You're spot on man. I wish this was the stuff Armstrong saw. These coaches aren't wrong, he has to allow the offense to work for him. There is other examples of these easy routes if Tommy would just check down to them. I expect him to improve. If he continues not to, then I expect the coaches to either make things easier for him, or find someone who will do these things. I don't expect it to take seven more years.

 

[Mavric]

Here's another one where he tries to force it in to a very well covered Westkamp when his second look (Moore on the crossing route) was wide open. Sorry for the crappy quality but the camera was moving too fast to clean it up.

As to True's point above, this should be fairly easily correctable. The line is doing a good job of keeping him clean so far. If he can just see that there are other plays to be made if he can be a little more patient, things should open up for him quickly.

 

[zoogs]

It has been mentioned that TA should have taken more check down routes and Bo mentioned this play post-game. This is the play before the Pick Six. Obviously, TA really wanted to throw to Westerkamp in the back of the end zone but if he throws to Turner right now it's an easy six. He eventually short hops it at Turner's feet as Turner is standing on the sideline.

Crazy how a little "mistake" can get magnified.

Is anyone covering Westerkamp in this picture? He looks quite open. I'd go for the corner of the end zone too.

Another thing is QBs don't have the luxury of deciding between two options (at least, I don't think they do.) Not usually. When you go through progressions, you take the first one if it's there, and if you move on to the second you probably don't come back to the first. And you might not have time to go through progressions, especially if you're a young QB.

In the last screen, a better throw as Tommy made on a previous out to either Westerkamp or Jamal seems like it should have done the job. This throw was not in the right place at all. It does seem like he's fairly tightly covered though, which is what makes the out a difficult throw. You really have to zip it way out there or the risk is substantial.

And I do agree, Tommy should choose to move on from his first progression a little more. Although the decision-making probably goes: if I switch and look at #2, and he's covered, I'm probably taking a sack. Maybe in time he'll do this all fast enough to get to his checkdown as well.

 

[Mavric]

Two plays later, here's the other side of the coin that Bo talked about. You can't really see in on the still shot but Moore was very lazy out of his break. I originally blamed this on TA for a bad throw to an open receiver that would have been a first down and kept the drive alive but actually TA threw this on a dime - excellent job of throwing the ball before the receiver made his cut - but Moore was lazy with his break and didn't get around in time to make the catch. Ball hits off his hands but it results in a punt. Little things.

 

[True2tRA]

It has been mentioned that TA should have taken more check down routes and Bo mentioned this play post-game. This is the play before the Pick Six. Obviously, TA really wanted to throw to Westerkamp in the back of the end zone but if he throws to Turner right now it's an easy six. He eventually short hops it at Turner's feet as Turner is standing on the sideline. Crazy how a little "mistake" can get magnified.

Is anyone covering Westerkamp in this picture? He looks quite open. I'd go for the corner of the end zone too.Another thing is QBs don't have the luxury of deciding between two options (at least, I don't think they do.) Not usually. When you go through progressions, you take the first one if it's there, and if you move on to the second you probably don't come back to the first. And you might not have time to go through progressions, especially if you're a young QB.In the last screen, a better throw as Tommy made on a previous out to either Westerkamp or Jamal seems like it should have done the job. This throw was not in the right place at all. It does seem like he's fairly tightly covered though, which is what makes the out a difficult throw. You really have to zip it way out there or the risk is substantial.And I do agree, Tommy should choose to move on from his first progression a little more. Although the decision-making probably goes: if I switch and look at #2, and he's covered, I'm probably taking a sack. Maybe in time he'll do this all fast enough to get to his checkdown as well.

Tommy was being well protected. It's not as difficult as we want to try to make it. He's supposed to be able to roll to that side of the field, the same direction as the routes are being ran. I'm assuming the short route is probably his first option, but if that covered up that deep route to Westerkamp should develop. Tommy has the choice to choose either and it's not a hard choice, both routes are right in front of him. The thing is that short route was not covered up and he needed to trust that Turner would catch the ball and do his job from there. This getting greedy and taking the downfield sh#t needs to stop. If its there, you take it. Take enough of those short routes and a few times a game those deep routes become like playing catch in the backyard with no defenders.

 

[zoogs]

I'm no football expert but I would have guessed based on extensive playing of Madden -P) that the downfield was the first option, and this play was designed to go for corner of the endzone. Turner looks like an outlet. In this case, even if you see him open, I think you're supposed to take the first guy if you can, just make a good throw.

 

[Mavric]

Is anyone covering Westerkamp in this picture? He looks quite open. I'd go for the corner of the end zone too.

Another thing is QBs don't have the luxury of deciding between two options (at least, I don't think they do.) Not usually. When you go through progressions, you take the first one if it's there, and if you move on to the second you probably don't come back to the first. And you might not have time to go through progressions, especially if you're a young QB.

In the last screen, a better throw as Tommy made on a previous out to either Westerkamp or Jamal seems like it should have done the job. This throw was not in the right place at all. It does seem like he's fairly tightly covered though, which is what makes the out a difficult throw. You really have to zip it way out there or the risk is substantial.

And I do agree, Tommy should choose to move on from his first progression a little more. Although the decision-making probably goes: if I switch and look at #2, and he's covered, I'm probably taking a sack. Maybe in time he'll do this all fast enough to get to his checkdown as well.

The guy right in front of Westerkamp actually recovers quickly. TA started to throw to Westerkamp but pulled it back down.

It's kind of a fine line as far as progressions go. You definitely look to one then the second and so on. It's not always realistic to expect him to see the #2 option is open before he decides the #1 option isn't. This type of play would probably be an exception. He's rolling toward both receivers and it would normally be more of an option as opposed to a specific #1/#2. You're expecting them to not be able to cover both so you're looking for whoever comes open. You should really be more looking for where the defenders are because you know where the receivers are going. I just think TA had already decided to throw it to Westerkamp (usually an excellent option).

He *could* have gotten it through to Westerkamp (in the previous screen) but that's a Brett Farve type throw - Farve would probably get it there more often then not but he'd also throw several picks trying as well which makes people shake their heads. Most coaches would tell you he's not open and work to your next option.

 

[admo]

Good job Mav.

The first one is a designed pick play as QMany mentioned. Turner was the first option and Tommy was initially interested in the second read / Westerkamp instead.

The second and third captures are similar routes. An outside curl route, a middle route to split S + LB, and a short check down. I agree the WR needs to run their routes crisp. And Tommy needs to read it accurately to make the correct decision.

 

[zoogs]

Ah, I see. Good breakdown, Mav.

 

[Landlord]

It has been mentioned that TA should have taken more check down routes and Bo mentioned this play post-game. This is the play before the Pick Six. Obviously, TA really wanted to throw to Westerkamp in the back of the end zone but if he throws to Turner right now it's an easy six. He eventually short hops it at Turner's feet as Turner is standing on the sideline.

Crazy how a little "mistake" can get magnified.

Question 1. How are you taking these screenshots and positing them? 2. Where is Westerkamp in this photo and where is Turner?

I think Jordan's the top-left receiver and Jamal's the one on the 12.

Dont' know how he's screenshotting but I have copies of every game if anyone ever wants screencaps of other things.

 

[admo]

That's Imani Cross at 12. Turner is the open guy around the 8 from the pick by Bell or whoever. Westerkamp is near goal line.