Do we lack a home run threat?

saunders45 said:
ColoradoHusk said:
Mavric said:
I don't really think that's right. We run a lot of zone schemes so on a lot of runs there are linemen working up to the linebackers right away.

Plus, we're leading the nation in plays over 10 yards. By the time you've gotten 10 yards downfield, the OL has done everything they can do. It's up to the ball carrier to get the yards after that.
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Listening to both Damon Benning and Mike'l Severe yesterday on their radio shows, they thought that against USA, Newby struggled once he gets to the 2nd level and didn't know where to go after getting through the initial hole. They both thought Newby left a lot of extra yards out there. I know it's tough to complain about nearly 200 yards rushing, but both seemed to think he could have gotten 250-300 if he makes the appropriate downfield moves.

That was something I thought Ameer was great at. Ameer seemed to be great at looking past the initial hole, and looking downfield at the next level of defenders. Even though Ameer didn't have amazing, breakaway speed, he was able to make defenders miss downfield (see Eric Weddle from the Chargers this past Sunday).
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Perhaps that's why Newby was still getting snaps towards the end. The staff giving him a chance to figure it out in a live game?
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I think there's a lot of truth to that. He has yet to really look comfortable and find what seems to be a good rhythm. Watching the game, I feel like any of our backs could have run it just as well as he did. The line did a good job of blocking, which he followed and not much more. He didn't really have that many runs where he made guys miss and get through that second level, as has been mentioned. The staff sees the high ceiling for Newby but he still has a long ways to go and they are trying to do everything they can to get him there.

 
I will gladly watch the dink and dunk plays up and down the field if it leads to scoring. At some point it will create a big play that will go for a lot of yards. We are approaching game 3 of an entirely new offense. Just let it develop.

 
In the Deed the Glory said:
We don't hang with Michigan State and Minnesota without the threat of the big play. Without putting it on film they won't game plan for it, and then the dink and dunk passing and the running game will be much tougher to execute. Bill Walsh says the big play is paramount in this style of offense. It is one of the founding beliefs.

Can we do it? Nobody knows right now as we haven't shown it, but to say you don't need it to be successful long term shows a lack of understanding of the principles of offensive football and specifically a pro style offense.
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Bill Walsh said that?

Walsh was the guru of the dink and dunk. The West Coast Offense was all about using high percentage short and mid-range passes to replace reliance on both the running game and the deep ball. Joe Montana wasn't considered a strong-arm quarterback, so it fit his skills perfectly. The 49ers of Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig became famous for running up the YAC - Yards After Catch. That meant screens and short crossing patterns that got them the ball -- in stride -- in the open field. So plays that were designed for 8 - 15 yards always had a chance to become game-breakers. When I saw the plays designed for Brandon Reiley on Saturday, I actually flashed on the old 49ers.

More to the point, you use all your offensive weapons in multiple dink-and-dunk ways to keep the defense off-balance, and throw the periodic bomb to loosen up the secondary. This seems to be what we're doing right now. I don't think there's any question that we'll have more trouble with the Michigan State and Minnesotas than we did So. Alabama, but I think we've already established that Armstrong and his extremely deep stable of competent receivers are a threat to go long. I can't imagine any DC not planning for it just because we didn't complete a long bomb in our first two games.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
In the Deed the Glory said:
We don't hang with Michigan State and Minnesota without the threat of the big play. Without putting it on film they won't game plan for it, and then the dink and dunk passing and the running game will be much tougher to execute. Bill Walsh says the big play is paramount in this style of offense. It is one of the founding beliefs.

Can we do it? Nobody knows right now as we haven't shown it, but to say you don't need it to be successful long term shows a lack of understanding of the principles of offensive football and specifically a pro style offense.
Click to expand...
Bill Walsh said that?

Walsh was the guru of the dink and dunk. The West Coast Offense was all about using high percentage short and mid-range passes to replace reliance on both the running game and the deep ball. Joe Montana wasn't considered a strong-arm quarterback, so it fit his skills perfectly. The 49ers of Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig became famous for running up the YAC - Yards After Catch. That meant screens and short crossing patterns that got them the ball -- in stride -- in the open field. So plays that were designed for 8 - 15 yards always had a chance to become game-breakers. When I saw the plays designed for Brandon Reiley on Saturday, I actually flashed on the old 49ers.

More to the point, you use all your offensive weapons in multiple dink-and-dunk ways to keep the defense off-balance, and throw the periodic bomb to loosen up the secondary. This seems to be what we're doing right now. I don't think there's any question that we'll have more trouble with the Michigan State and Minnesotas than we did So. Alabama, but I think we've already established that Armstrong and his extremely deep stable of competent receivers are a threat to go long. I can't imagine any DC not planning for it just because we didn't complete a long bomb in our first two games.
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This is what I was trying to say, but you said it better than me.

Walsh's offense was about dink and dunk,but they did try to hit the big play. Many times it was to the TE in the middle of the field. When I say over the top, I don't mean a fade route. I should have been more specific. I meant a 10-15 yard post behind that safety that crept up, or a TE seam.

 
ArcticHusker said:
lo country said:
Watching the game, the announcers continually talk about how our drives were solid, but they came in short runs or passes and were not ripping off huge yards. Continued to wonder if it was by design or the lack of deep threat guys. Never really thought about it until they harped on it. They said we appear to be predicated on the RB getting some blocks or the receivers getting some other guys blocking down field.

IMO, it appeared to be by design. I think TA has the arm to crank one deep and receivers in Moore, Morgan and Reilly who have the speed to go deep. Newby flashed some stuff that shows he could take it to the house. I think we have the players and play calling, but haven't shown in yet.

Thoughts?
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We have one, he'll be back by week 6-8
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Any chance DPE ends up wt a medical redshirt instead? - seems like a wasted year if he can only play in 4-5 games. I'd love to have him and maybe he will be all we need to wrap up the division but it would be nice to have him heal fully and be available for 3 full years when MR has more of his recruits, his QB (not taking away from what Tommie has done so far -very impressed by the coaching there) and his system fully implemented. I think back about how Turner was going to be our big threat but he is, after injury, a shell of his former self.

On the other side of the argument, one could say that MR will probably recruit another DPE type player so use DPE now while you got him and play him as much as you can - if he recovers well - he may be in the NFL after his Jr season.

 
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4skers89 said:
I was trying to find a stat on how many plays we have over 20 or 30 yards and how that compares nationally. I found this surprising stat instead: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/703 . Our red zone offense is 9 of 9 attempts with 4 rushing TDs, 4 passing TDs and 1 FG? That doesn't seem right.
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Looks to be correct to me.

BYU - 3 trips to the red zone, 3 TD's. One TD was a 22 yard pass to Moore, so the offense didn't get into the official red zone. Brown's 2 FG's missed were from 40 & 41 so those were outside the red zone, too.

South Alabama - 6 trips to the red zone, 5 TD's and 1 FG. Also scored on a 21 yard pass to Westerkamp and 42 yard FG by Brown, so those scores were outside the red zone.

 
TGHusker said:
ArcticHusker said:
lo country said:
Watching the game, the announcers continually talk about how our drives were solid, but they came in short runs or passes and were not ripping off huge yards. Continued to wonder if it was by design or the lack of deep threat guys. Never really thought about it until they harped on it. They said we appear to be predicated on the RB getting some blocks or the receivers getting some other guys blocking down field.

IMO, it appeared to be by design. I think TA has the arm to crank one deep and receivers in Moore, Morgan and Reilly who have the speed to go deep. Newby flashed some stuff that shows he could take it to the house. I think we have the players and play calling, but haven't shown in yet.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
We have one, he'll be back by week 6-8
Click to expand...
Any chance DPE ends up wt a medical redshirt instead? - seems like a wasted year if he can only play in 4-5 games. I'd love to have him and maybe he will be all we need to wrap up the division but it would be nice to have him heal fully and be available for 3 full years when MR has more of his recruits, his QB (not taking away from what Tommie has done so far -very impressed by the coaching there) and his system fully implemented. I think back about how Turner was going to be our big threat but he is, after injury, a shell of his former self.

On the other side of the argument, one could say that MR will probably recruit another DPE type player so use DPE now while you got him and play him as much as you can - if he recovers well - he may be in the NFL after his Jr season.
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Actually if everything goes to plan he can be back for the conference opener. That six to 8 weeks was from the time of the injury not 6-8 weeks of the season. He could be back for Illinois, but most likely for Wisconsin.

 
Mavric said:
4skers89 said:
I was trying to find a stat on how many plays we have over 20 or 30 yards and how that compares nationally. I found this surprising stat instead: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/703 . Our red zone offense is 9 of 9 attempts with 4 rushing TDs, 4 passing TDs and 1 FG? That doesn't seem right.
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Here you go:

1st in 10+ yard plays

T-52 in 20+ yard plays

T-98 in 30+ yard plays

T-110 in 40+ yard plays (we don't have any)
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This tells me 2 things

1) The offense has some very good design elements to it, but there lacks a few stud play-makers that can get more of the play than what is initially designed.

2) By pure math, if a team isn't getting 20, 30, 40+ yard plays, that team will have to get more 10+ yard plays to move the ball down the field. Mathematically, a 40 yard play would result in 3 fewer 10+ plays [(40-10]/10] = 3

 
In the Deed the Glory said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
In the Deed the Glory said:
We don't hang with Michigan State and Minnesota without the threat of the big play. Without putting it on film they won't game plan for it, and then the dink and dunk passing and the running game will be much tougher to execute. Bill Walsh says the big play is paramount in this style of offense. It is one of the founding beliefs.

Can we do it? Nobody knows right now as we haven't shown it, but to say you don't need it to be successful long term shows a lack of understanding of the principles of offensive football and specifically a pro style offense.
Click to expand...
Bill Walsh said that?

Walsh was the guru of the dink and dunk. The West Coast Offense was all about using high percentage short and mid-range passes to replace reliance on both the running game and the deep ball. Joe Montana wasn't considered a strong-arm quarterback, so it fit his skills perfectly. The 49ers of Jerry Rice, John Taylor and Roger Craig became famous for running up the YAC - Yards After Catch. That meant screens and short crossing patterns that got them the ball -- in stride -- in the open field. So plays that were designed for 8 - 15 yards always had a chance to become game-breakers. When I saw the plays designed for Brandon Reiley on Saturday, I actually flashed on the old 49ers.

More to the point, you use all your offensive weapons in multiple dink-and-dunk ways to keep the defense off-balance, and throw the periodic bomb to loosen up the secondary. This seems to be what we're doing right now. I don't think there's any question that we'll have more trouble with the Michigan State and Minnesotas than we did So. Alabama, but I think we've already established that Armstrong and his extremely deep stable of competent receivers are a threat to go long. I can't imagine any DC not planning for it just because we didn't complete a long bomb in our first two games.
Click to expand...
This is what I was trying to say, but you said it better than me.

Walsh's offense was about dink and dunk,but they did try to hit the big play. Many times it was to the TE in the middle of the field. When I say over the top, I don't mean a fade route. I should have been more specific. I meant a 10-15 yard post behind that safety that crept up, or a TE seam.
Click to expand...
Well I'm a longtime 49ers fan, so it's close to home. Funny thing is that Walsh had stints with both the Raiders and Chargers, where the deep threat was everything.

 
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