Scholies vs. Walkons - The real story

[knapplc]

I don't have time to do Alabama's entire roster. I looked at their starters against Wisconsin, and none of them were walk-ons. They all had a ridiculous number of stars and were "the best player in X state" bap bap bap.

Here's their participation list from the Wisconsin game. If someone wants to do the non-starters, they're welcome to join the fun.



Offense
Pos ## Offense
LT 74 Robinson, Cam
LG 71 Pierschbacher
C 70 Kelly, Ryan
RG 50 Taylor, A.
RT 76 Jackson, D.
TE 88 Howard, O.J.
QB 14 Coker, Jake
RB 17 Drake, Kenyan
RB 2 Henry, Derrick
WR 8 Foster, Robert
WR 13 Stewart, A.

Defense
Pos ## Defense
DE 86 Robinson, A.
NG 95 Lake, Darren
DE 90 Reed, Jarran
SLB 25 Lee, Dillon
MLB 19 Ragland, Reggie
WLB 20 Hamilton, S.
JLB 30 Devall, Denzel
CB 5 Jones, Cyrus
SS 4 Jackson, Eddie
FS 24 Matias-Smith, G
CB 26 Humphrey, M.

Other participants:
1-Black, Chris,
1B-Harrison, R.,
3A-Ridley, Calvin,
3B-Miller, C.,
3-Sylve, Bradley,
6-Jones, Hootie,
7A-Sims, Cam,
7-Brown, Tony,
9B-Payne, Daron,
9-Hand, Da'Shawn,
10-Foster, Reuben,
11-Morris, Alec,
15-Scott, JK,
16-Mullaney, R.,
18-Bateman, Cooper,
21-Smith, Maurice,
22-Anderson, Ryan,
27-Burgess-Becker,
29-Fitzpatrick, M.,
32-Evans, Rashaan,
34-Harris, Damien,
42-Holcombe, Keith,
46-Nysewander, M.,
54-Tomlinson, D.,
55-Mazza, Cole,
56-Williams, Tim,
57-Pettway, D.J.,
58-Greene, Brandon,
59-Warmack, Dallas,
63-Hassenauer, J.,
66-Cotton, Lester,
69-Frazier, Joshua,
75-Bozeman, B.,
83-Flournoy-Smith,
84-Hentges, Hale,
87-Barrineau, P.,
93-Allen, Jonathan,
94-Ball, Dakota,
99-Griffith, Adam.

 

[Kiyoat Husker]

I think the general message here is that being forced to rely on walk-ons is a statement to poor recruiting.

But, efficiently using walk-ons, as TO did and Wisconsin does, is a smart way to overcome recruiting disadvantages.

Wisconsin, Michigan State and Oregon are three programs that have consistently outperformed their recruiting rankings in recent years.

Wisconsin does it with System and walk-ons

Michigan State does it with Superior Coaching and Defensive System

Oregon does it with Offensive System and Nike

So how can Nebraska do it under Riley? - Hopefully better coaching and recruiting. We have to be better than Bo's 29th for that to improve

 

[84HuskerLaw]

There is nothing wrong with walk ons and they can certainly help a program build and remain strong as they create numbers allowing for more practice teams, etc. You need to be able to practice against people comparable to those you will play against in games. TO used walks on primarily for practice players but some walk ons became starters. The Macovicka boys were shining examples. Small town Nebraska guys that grew up big time husker fans in a husker family. They were also great athletes who didn't want to go anywhere else and because they came from such small schools, were not going to be recruited for scholarships anywhere major.

It doesn't matter if walk on or scholie, the player should play and travel, etc. based on merit as a player. You don't reward those you gave a scholarship to by giving them playing time too. They earn it. All players should have equal shot at all aspects of team participation. You don't guarantee playing time to get a player unless you intend to back that guaranty up with playing time. And, of course, that is very risky and foolish. They player may not be the player you had wanted or expected. Never make promises you will regret. That is the danger of the Big Ten's new guaranteed scholarships for 4 years to athletes. Athletes need the incentive to perform while in school.

 

[Mierin]

You're also lying with statistics, but...

"Let's take the number of walk-ons Wisconsin played when they were up by 58 points and compare that to the number of walk-ons Nebraska brought to their biggest non-con away game where they were an underdog. See, they're equal. "

So you're saying that Wisconsin will play walkons ahead of scholarship athletes? That sounds like a good strategy for recruiting. smh

They played a total of 46 scholarship players and 18 former walkons in a blowout home game.

The Huskers played 41 scholarship players and 10 former walkons in a close away game.

What is your takeaway from this? They look awfully similar to me. Way too similar to justify all the chicken little posts about 24/79 yesterday.

Go ahead and do some of your own analaysis on a close Wisconsin road game. Or just whine about numbers that don't fit your agenda.

They're not similar. You are not going to get this published.

On a serious note, if you're trying to prove those people wrong, it's your responsibility to provide the data. Good data, not data on two completely different types of games.

 

[GBRedneck]

You're also lying with statistics, but...

"Let's take the number of walk-ons Wisconsin played when they were up by 58 points and compare that to the number of walk-ons Nebraska brought to their biggest non-con away game where they were an underdog. See, they're equal. "

So you're saying that Wisconsin will play walkons ahead of scholarship athletes? That sounds like a good strategy for recruiting. smh

They played a total of 46 scholarship players and 18 former walkons in a blowout home game.

The Huskers played 41 scholarship players and 10 former walkons in a close away game.

What is your takeaway from this? They look awfully similar to me. Way too similar to justify all the chicken little posts about 24/79 yesterday.

Go ahead and do some of your own analaysis on a close Wisconsin road game. Or just whine about numbers that don't fit your agenda.

They're not similar. You are not going to get this published.

On a serious note, if you're trying to prove those people wrong, it's your responsibility to provide the data. Good data, not data on two completely different types of games.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

In Wisconsin's road game (neutral field) against Bama (where they trailed 28-10 after three quarters), Wisconsin played 50 total players. 12 of them were former walkons.

In Nebraska's road game against Miami (where they trailed 30-10 after three quarters), Nebraska played 51 total players. 10 of them were former walkons.

Is that similar enough for ya?

 

[StPaulHusker]

You're also lying with statistics, but...

"Let's take the number of walk-ons Wisconsin played when they were up by 58 points and compare that to the number of walk-ons Nebraska brought to their biggest non-con away game where they were an underdog. See, they're equal. "

So you're saying that Wisconsin will play walkons ahead of scholarship athletes? That sounds like a good strategy for recruiting. smh

They played a total of 46 scholarship players and 18 former walkons in a blowout home game.

The Huskers played 41 scholarship players and 10 former walkons in a close away game.

What is your takeaway from this? They look awfully similar to me. Way too similar to justify all the chicken little posts about 24/79 yesterday.

Go ahead and do some of your own analaysis on a close Wisconsin road game. Or just whine about numbers that don't fit your agenda.

They're not similar. You are not going to get this published.

On a serious note, if you're trying to prove those people wrong, it's your responsibility to provide the data. Good data, not data on two completely different types of games.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

In Wisconsin's road game (neutral field) against Bama (where they trailed 28-10 after three quarters), Wisconsin played 50 total players. 12 of them were former walkons.

In Nebraska's road game against Miami (where they trailed 30-10 after three quarters), Nebraska played 51 total players. 10 of them were former walkons.

Is that similar enough for ya?

Both teams lost. So I am not sure what point you are trying to prove.

 

[GBRedneck]

You're also lying with statistics, but...

"Let's take the number of walk-ons Wisconsin played when they were up by 58 points and compare that to the number of walk-ons Nebraska brought to their biggest non-con away game where they were an underdog. See, they're equal. "

So you're saying that Wisconsin will play walkons ahead of scholarship athletes? That sounds like a good strategy for recruiting. smh

They played a total of 46 scholarship players and 18 former walkons in a blowout home game.

The Huskers played 41 scholarship players and 10 former walkons in a close away game.

What is your takeaway from this? They look awfully similar to me. Way too similar to justify all the chicken little posts about 24/79 yesterday.

Go ahead and do some of your own analaysis on a close Wisconsin road game. Or just whine about numbers that don't fit your agenda.

They're not similar. You are not going to get this published.

On a serious note, if you're trying to prove those people wrong, it's your responsibility to provide the data. Good data, not data on two completely different types of games.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

In Wisconsin's road game (neutral field) against Bama (where they trailed 28-10 after three quarters), Wisconsin played 50 total players. 12 of them were former walkons.

In Nebraska's road game against Miami (where they trailed 30-10 after three quarters), Nebraska played 51 total players. 10 of them were former walkons.

Is that similar enough for ya?

Both teams lost. So I am not sure what point you are trying to prove.

sigh

Read the title of the thread. Read the OP. People were freaking out about the scholie vs walkon ration on the travel roster for the Miami game. Turns out with a little digging, we find out the ratio is right in line with our division nemesis, Wisconsin.

HTH

 

[commando]

the point fo the thread seems to be that all schools (except apparently alabama) are very reliant on the walk on programs.

 

[DomiNUs]

This thread actually turned into something that is quite interesting. Which teams play more walkons, and at what point do they play? It would be interesting to find out which teams are doing more with less (Wisconsin) and which teams are just doing more with more (Alabama). At least on a larger scale than what has already been done here.

 

[knapplc]

Walkons should be used to augment a roster, not as a necessity when recruiting fails.

 

[StPaulHusker]

You're also lying with statistics, but...

"Let's take the number of walk-ons Wisconsin played when they were up by 58 points and compare that to the number of walk-ons Nebraska brought to their biggest non-con away game where they were an underdog. See, they're equal. "

So you're saying that Wisconsin will play walkons ahead of scholarship athletes? That sounds like a good strategy for recruiting. smh
They played a total of 46 scholarship players and 18 former walkons in a blowout home game.

The Huskers played 41 scholarship players and 10 former walkons in a close away game.

What is your takeaway from this? They look awfully similar to me. Way too similar to justify all the chicken little posts about 24/79 yesterday.

Go ahead and do some of your own analaysis on a close Wisconsin road game. Or just whine about numbers that don't fit your agenda.

They're not similar. You are not going to get this published.

On a serious note, if you're trying to prove those people wrong, it's your responsibility to provide the data. Good data, not data on two completely different types of games.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread.

In Wisconsin's road game (neutral field) against Bama (where they trailed 28-10 after three quarters), Wisconsin played 50 total players. 12 of them were former walkons.

In Nebraska's road game against Miami (where they trailed 30-10 after three quarters), Nebraska played 51 total players. 10 of them were former walkons.

Is that similar enough for ya?

Both teams lost. So I am not sure what point you are trying to prove.

sigh
Read the title of the thread. Read the OP. People were freaking out about the scholie vs walkon ration on the travel roster for the Miami game. Turns out with a little digging, we find out the ratio is right in line with our division nemesis, Wisconsin.

HTH

Well. As long as Wisconsin does it. I guess it's okay.

 

[GBRedneck]

I don't have time to do Alabama's entire roster. I looked at their starters against Wisconsin, and none of them were walk-ons. They all had a ridiculous number of stars and were "the best player in X state" bap bap bap.

Here's their participation list from the Wisconsin game. If someone wants to do the non-starters, they're welcome to join the fun.

Offense

Pos ## Offense

LT 74 Robinson, Cam

LG 71 Pierschbacher

C 70 Kelly, Ryan

RG 50 Taylor, A.

RT 76 Jackson, D.

TE 88 Howard, O.J.

QB 14 Coker, Jake

RB 17 Drake, Kenyan

RB 2 Henry, Derrick

WR 8 Foster, Robert

WR 13 Stewart, A.

Defense

Pos ## Defense

DE 86 Robinson, A.

NG 95 Lake, Darren

DE 90 Reed, Jarran

SLB 25 Lee, Dillon

MLB 19 Ragland, Reggie

WLB 20 Hamilton, S.

JLB 30 Devall, Denzel

CB 5 Jones, Cyrus

SS 4 Jackson, Eddie

FS 24 Matias-Smith, G

CB 26 Humphrey, M.

Other participants:

1-Black, Chris,

1B-Harrison, R.,

3A-Ridley, Calvin,

3B-Miller, C.,

3-Sylve, Bradley,

6-Jones, Hootie,

7A-Sims, Cam,

7-Brown, Tony,

9B-Payne, Daron,

9-Hand, Da'Shawn,

10-Foster, Reuben,

11-Morris, Alec,

15-Scott, JK,

16-Mullaney, R.,

18-Bateman, Cooper,

21-Smith, Maurice,

22-Anderson, Ryan,

27-Burgess-Becker,

29-Fitzpatrick, M.,

32-Evans, Rashaan,

34-Harris, Damien,

42-Holcombe, Keith,

46-Nysewander, M.,

54-Tomlinson, D.,

55-Mazza, Cole,

56-Williams, Tim,

57-Pettway, D.J.,

58-Greene, Brandon,

59-Warmack, Dallas,

63-Hassenauer, J.,

66-Cotton, Lester,

69-Frazier, Joshua,

75-Bozeman, B.,

83-Flournoy-Smith,

84-Hentges, Hale,

87-Barrineau, P.,

93-Allen, Jonathan,

94-Ball, Dakota,

99-Griffith, Adam.

So, Wisconsin played 12 former walkons against Bama, Nebraska played 10 former walkons against Miami, and Bama played 6 former walkons against Wisconsin:

Allen, Jonathan, 13
Anderson, Ryan, 12
Ball, Dakota, W
Barrineau, P., W
Bateman, Cooper, 13
Black, Chris, W
Bozeman, B., 13
Brown, Tony, 14
Burgess-Becker, 15
Cotton, Lester, 15
Evans, Rashaan, 14
Fitzpatrick, M., 15
Flournoy-Smith, 14
Foster, Reuben, 13
Frazier, Joshua, 14
Greene, Brandon, 12
Griffith, Adam. 12
Hand, Da'Shawn, 14
Harris, Damien, 15
Harrison, R., 15
Hassenauer, J., 14
Hentges, Hale, 15
Holcombe, Keith, 14
Jones, Hootie, W
Mazza, Cole, 13
Miller, C., 14
Morris, Alec, 12
Mullaney, R., W
Nysewander, M., W
Payne, Daron, 15
Pettway, D.J., 14
Ridley, Calvin, 15
Scott, JK, 14
Sims, Cam, 14
Smith, Maurice, 13
Sylve, Bradley, 11
Tomlinson, D., 12
Warmack, Dallas, 15
Williams, Tim, 13

 

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

And overall, who cares. Our recruiting is not that of Bamas nor will it ever be. Just win.

 

[RADAR]

I saw a lot of references to the 24 of 79 players on the Husker travel roster being walkons. ("Oh the horror!!!")

I asked several times for the same stats from other teams, because as a standalone number, 24/79 is pretty meaningless. Anyway, I got tired of waiting so I went to compile some numbers on my own.

I looked at Wisconsin. Since I couldn't find any travel rosters, I figured I would find a blowout game where a lot of players saw the field and maybe the game participation report would have a similar number of players to the Husker travel roster. The Sept 12 game against Miami(OH) was a 58-0 blowout, and sure enough, they had 64 players that saw the field. I cross referenced that list with their recruiting classes from 2011 - 2015 to include 5th year seniors through true freshman.

The results were very similar to the Huskers. Out of 64 who saw the field, 18 were walkons. 18/64 = 28% walkons. Remember, that is the guys that actually played. Our numbers for Miami were 24/79 = 30% walkons, but that is just those who traveled, not necessarily played.

So I also checked the Huskers participation report against Miami. The Huskers played 51 total, 10 were walkons. 10/51 = 19.6%

So either Wisconsin is in big trouble talent wise, or Riley has a bunch of supporters who are experts in "How to Lie with Statistics".

Here are the Wisconsin players marked with either W for walkon, or the year of their recruiting class.

Biegel, Hayden 13

Biegel, Vince 12

Brookins, K. 13

Caputo, Michael 11

Cichy, Jack W

Connelly, Ryan W

Connors, Brett W

Deal, Taiwan 14

Deiter, Michael 14

Dixon, D'Cota 14

Dooley, Garret 13

Edwards, TJ 14

Endicott, Andre W

Erickson, Alex W

Farrar, A. 15

Ferguson, Joe W

Figaro, Lubern 14

Fredrick, J. 11

Gaglianone, R. 14

Goldberg, A. 12

Hayes, Jesse 11

Hillary, Darius 11

Hirschfeld, B. 14

Houston, Bart 12

Jacobs, Leon 13

Jamerson, N. 14

James, Alec 13

Jones, Kellen W

Jordan, AJ 11

Kapoi, Micah 14

Keefer, Jake 11

Kinlaw, Caleb 14

Love, Reggie 12

Marz, Tyler 11

Maxwell, Jacob 14

McEvoy, Tanner 13

Meyer, Drew W

Musso, Leo 12

Neuville, Z. W

Obasih, Chikwe 13

Ogunbowale, D. W

Orr, Chris 15

Panos, George 14

Peavy, Jazz 13

Rosowski, PJ W

Rushing, George 14

Russell, Jack W

Saari, Mark W

Sagapolu, Olive 15

Schmidt, Logan W

Schobert, Joe W

Sheehy, Conor 14

Shelton, S. 13

Stave, Joel W

Steffes, Eric 11

Straus, Derek W

Tindal, Derrick 14

Traylor, Austin 11

Udelhoven, C. W

Voltz, Dan 12

Watt, Derek 11

Watt, TJ 13

Wheelwright, R. 13

Williams, W. 1

A crap post, the only thing Nebraska and Wisconsin have in common right now is they are both unranked with average talent. Damon Benning said today on the subject, that if this continued to be case in 2 years, Nebraska is in real trouble. (hense, Nebraska is in real trouble NOW)

 

[teachercd]

With a top notch recruiting staff...I think NU could count on rankings (on a consistent basis) in the top 20...with a lot of top 15's.