Ganz & Severe break down the long Illinois pass near end of game

ColoradoHusk

ColoradoHusk

Donor
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.

 
ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
Regarding the pass rush, first and foremost, regardless of the qb and his running ability, the number one job there is to contain. If they walked the d-ends out to ensure that they didn't lose contain, then I'm fine with that. The last thing they want is the qb to break contain, scramble around for 10 seconds and make our secondary cover for that long.
 
gbr93 said:
ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
Regarding the pass rush, first and foremost, regardless of the qb and his running ability, the number one job there is to contain. If they walked the d-ends out to ensure that they didn't lose contain, then I'm fine with that. The last thing they want is the qb to break contain, scramble around for 10 seconds and make our secondary cover for that long.
Click to expand...
I agree that contain is important. However, to not rush anyone over the center (usually the weakest pass blocker on the team) is bad scheme.

 
Did we only rush four? If so then it doesn't matter if you rush the center or the guard. Either way one will be helping the other or vice versa.

 
ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with how you describe the issues of how the defense played vs the long pass. However, I don't think quarters was the best coverage for that situation. Quarters is susceptible to the deep pass because of the vertical lanes it creates with one-on-one match ups. In this case, they may have had more successful in Cover 2 Man (which could be disguised pre-snap). Press the WR outside, as you described, but give the CB an option to call out to the safeties whether it is a post or fade to get help overtop. Lunt is not a running threat, so don't leave the biggest weakness of this defense this season (the deep ball) as a viable option.

 
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Thanks_Tom RR said:
ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with how you describe the issues of how the defense played vs the long pass. However, I don't think quarters was the best coverage for that situation. Quarters is susceptible to the deep pass because of the vertical lanes it creates with one-on-one match ups. In this case, they may have had more successful in Cover 2 Man (which could be disguised pre-snap). Press the WR outside, as you described, but give the CB an option to call out to the safeties whether it is a post or fade to get help overtop. Lunt is not a running threat, so don't leave the biggest weakness of this defense this season (the deep ball) as a viable option.
Click to expand...
Not his opinion. Ganz and Severe's. He's giving cliff notes.

 
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ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
I know you didn't write this, so don't think I'm thinking you are wrong. But they have a few things wrong here.

Here's the play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GnKHqsOctM?t=2m24s

1. That's called "bail technique" and it's pretty widely used and isn't all that unusual regardless of situation. I'm actually confused to hear this, sure you open up the middle of the field, but you also better prepared to "bail" or run in the direction of the play. In this case, it's faster to "bail" than it is to "back pedal". Additionally, the bail technique allows for CB's to watch the play develop since they are looking in the direction of the play. Seems more unusual hearing that this is "bad technique" than that it's unusual.

Additionally, the guy who got the ball wasn't the one on the outside, whom Jones is covering. If I'm not mistaken, the guy on the outside (I'm assuming would be their #8) stayed outside. Which is why the guy who ends up with #11 (the guy who caught the ball) was Gerry. In our quarters, our S picks up inside WR after 8-10 yards. I wasn't able to see anything from the TV feed (I hate watching football on TV, doesn't tell the whole story), but seems like LB releases to S, as per usual in our quarters coverage. It just seems like Gerry blew it on the play. I can't see what happened but I'm guessing #11 made a quick move that made Gerry go in the wrong direction. QB seems to always have eyes on what the S will do on that play. And once he saw it, he threw it.

Just seems like Gerry was the one who slipped up or went in the wrong direction for a split second. It happens.

2. I actually don't know who made the catch on the play (slot or outside WR). I'm not sure jamming is best for a LB on a slot WR. That spells more disaster than anything... What if he doesn't jam him enough? That WR is beating him because, well, he's faster than an LB...

If the outside WR is indeed the guy who caught the ball, that makes more sense that Gerry was out of place. If there was a scissors concept on that play, I couldn't say who has slot or who has outside WR, because it could vary. I could see Gerry thinking that the slot was his guy past 10 yards, as is the norm. But if they crossed, might seem like a lot to ask your CB to follow outside guy to inside. I'd have a better answer if we had a wider shot. Which we don't have. Either way, blown coverage is blown coverage, regardless of scheme.

3. Seems more nit picky about 9 technique on DE's. Nothing abnormal there, not sure you want them in. If they're suggesting they're in 7 technique, ok, but you like their pass rush on the edges a bit better. Freedom seems to have better success in 9 technique. Additionally, DE's are loopers on the play... I might be wrong on this, but you want the DL generally spread out more when you have two loopers. What's funny is that, with the loopers, all the pressure is pushing to the inside.

I usually like Mike'l and Joe, but I don't know where they're coming from here regarding these points on this play...

 
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The inner circle of this staff is in way over their collective heads. This isn't oregon state, and the sooner they realize that, the better.

 
cg_8 said:
ColoradoHusk said:
Even after the debacle of the 3rd and 7 call, NU still had a chance to stop Illinois from going over 70 yards in 50 seconds. Yesterday on the OWH The Bottom Line show, Joe Ganz did a good job of breaking down the long pass that Illinois hit over Gerry to get inside the 10 yard line near the end of the game.

Here is a link to the podcast list for TBL http://dataomaha.com/whlive/bottomline I am referencing the Oct. 5 Hour 3 Segment 2 Nebraska quarters coverage breakdown.

Here is a Cliffs' notes version of the segment, and where NU went wrong. They are watching the play unfold from the highlights on BTN2go.com

1. NU is in quarter's coverage, which is fine. But, the CB at the bottom of the field (Chris Jones) has his hips open towards the middle of the field before the snap. Ganz says this is terrible technique being taught by the coaches. In this situation, the CB shouldn't be tipping his coverage in any manner, but also Jones is opening up the middle of the field to the WR. Jones should be forcing the WR to the sidelines, where the sideline can be used as another defender. Yes, giving up the sideline may allow a WR to catch the ball and get out of bounds to stop the clock, but the defense should try to force the incomplete pass before anything else. That's why the WR should be funneled to the sidelines. The QB is able to see the CB with his hips already opening the middle of the field up to the WR, so the QB already knows where he is going to probably pass the ball. This technique being taught the CB's is bad technique.

2. The LB's in coverage aren't wide enough. In this situation, there is no need to play for a run up the middle, so the LB's should widen up so they can get a jam on the slot receiver. Now, I know the slot receiver isn't the one who made the catch on this play, but it shows a huge flaw in Banker's scheme.

3. The front 4 seems to be pressuring Lunt from the outside-in. The DE's are almost in a 9 technique, and the DT's are on the guards. Wes Lunt struggles the most with pressure up the middle, and that's where Collins seemed to have his most success on pressuring the QB. By rushing from the outside and having no one over the center, the front 4 doesn't produce any pass rush and Lunt is able to step up in the pocket and make an easy throw.

This can be seen by pretty much watching the pre-snap alignment. I am terrible with technology, so if someone can post a screen grab of this play before the snap, that would be great help.
Click to expand...
I know you didn't write this, so don't think I'm thinking you are wrong. But they have a few things wrong here.

Here's the play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GnKHqsOctM?t=2m24s

1. That's called "bail technique" and it's pretty widely used and isn't all that unusual regardless of situation. I'm actually confused to hear this, sure you open up the middle of the field, but you also better prepared to "bail" or run in the direction of the play. In this case, it's faster to "bail" than it is to "back pedal". Additionally, the bail technique allows for CB's to watch the play develop since they are looking in the direction of the play. Seems more unusual hearing that this is "bad technique" than that it's unusual.

Additionally, the guy who got the ball wasn't the one on the outside, whom Jones is covering. If I'm not mistaken, the guy on the outside (I'm assuming would be their #8) stayed outside. Which is why the guy who ends up with #11 (the guy who caught the ball) was Gerry. In our quarters, our S picks up inside WR after 8-10 yards. I wasn't able to see anything from the TV feed (I hate watching football on TV, doesn't tell the whole story), but seems like LB releases to S, as per usual in our quarters coverage. It just seems like Gerry blew it on the play. I can't see what happened but I'm guessing #11 made a quick move that made Gerry go in the wrong direction. QB seems to always have eyes on what the S will do on that play. And once he saw it, he threw it.

Just seems like Gerry was the one who slipped up or went in the wrong direction for a split second. It happens.

2. I actually don't know who made the catch on the play (slot or outside WR). I'm not sure jamming is best for a LB on a slot WR. That spells more disaster than anything... What if he doesn't jam him enough? That WR is beating him because, well, he's faster than an LB...

If the outside WR is indeed the guy who caught the ball, that makes more sense that Gerry was out of place. If there was a scissors concept on that play, I couldn't say who has slot or who has outside WR, because it could vary. I could see Gerry thinking that the slot was his guy past 10 yards, as is the norm. But if they crossed, might seem like a lot to ask your CB to follow outside guy to inside. I'd have a better answer if we had a wider shot. Which we don't have. Either way, blown coverage is blown coverage, regardless of scheme.

3. Seems more nit picky about 9 technique on DE's. Nothing abnormal there, not sure you want them in. If they're suggesting they're in 7 technique, ok, but you like their pass rush on the edges a bit better. Freedom seems to have better success in 9 technique. Additionally, DE's are loopers on the play... I might be wrong on this, but you want the DL generally spread out more when you have two loopers. What's funny is that, with the loopers, all the pressure is pushing to the inside.

I usually like Mike'l and Joe, but I don't know where they're coming from here regarding these points on this play...
Click to expand...
That video was even worse than I remembered. I mean way worse.

The irony is Banker teaches, allegedly, outside spill. i.e. force the play to the outside and use the sideline. Not saying our quarters coverage is like MSU, BUT under Narduzzi that are in press coverage 95% of the time. Force them outside, knock them down or knock them off their routes.... Giving guys a free 8-10 yards before they "feel covered" is a recipe for disaster. Especially when most quarter coverage swutches to the LB or safety at this point.

Out coached is what it looks like to me....

 
thatguy said:
The inner circle of this staff is in way over their collective heads. This isn't oregon state, and the sooner they realize that, the better.
Click to expand...
I think this has some validity to it as the PAC 12 is a lot less physical than the B1G. With that being said, our CB's are being taught the correct way, but they are still using bad technique from Bo's defense. I believe it was Benning that stated that about two weeks ago. Bo wanted to force the WR's to the inside and Banker wants to force them to the outside. When then do that, that is leading to blown coverages. The play that is being debated is on Gerry for allowing him to get behind him. It is simple as that. Growing pains suck, and the dissapointing part is that it could have been overcome in this game with better playcalling on the offensive side. 14 points should never beat us vs a team like Illinois.

 
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