Target, Bathrooms, & a PC culture

JJHusker1 said:
What "rights" of these trans people are being trampled now? They can use public restrooms, no? Or, they can choose to largely avoid public restrooms in most cases, just like most sane people do. Call me crazy, a person with a penis is a man in my mind. Is it really discriminatory to expect them to use the same facilities as all other people with penis'? Really, that's discrimination?
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Fun fact: There are zero documented instances of assault, harassment or abuse by trans women (in your mind, men) towards women in women's bathrooms. There is not a single instance in public record where this has ever happened.

Conversely, when North Carolina passed their bill which does exactly what you want, bans trans people from using a bathroom that doesn't match their born-with genitalia, suicide calls to a crisis hotline for trans people, doubled, and a paper by the Williams institute out of UCLA remarked that 70% of trans people have reported being denied access, verbally harassed, or physically assaulted in public restrooms.

 
Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
JJHusker1 said:
What "rights" of these trans people are being trampled now? They can use public restrooms, no? Or, they can choose to largely avoid public restrooms in most cases, just like most sane people do. Call me crazy, a person with a penis is a man in my mind. Is it really discriminatory to expect them to use the same facilities as all other people with penis'? Really, that's discrimination?
Click to expand...

Fun fact: There are zero documented instances of assault, harassment or abuse by trans women (in your mind, men) towards women in women's bathrooms. There is not a single instance in public record where this has ever happened.

Conversely, when North Carolina passed their bill which does exactly what you want, bans trans people from using a bathroom that doesn't match their born-with genitalia, suicide calls to a crisis hotline for trans people, doubled, and a paper by the Williams institute out of UCLA remarked that 70% of trans people have reported being denied access, verbally harassed, or physically assaulted in public restrooms.
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I was having this discussion with my mother. This is not the point. I don't believe that the actual trans-women or trans-men would do anything to jeopardize the progress they are making. To do so would be idiotic. They have no incentive to do anything harmful (Not that they would anyway)

Its the pandora's box you are opening. We don't have a verify system in place to check on it. As always, privileges get abused by people that they aren't even designed for. How is it even possible to verify someones head in saying "you know what, I feel like a chick today".

What about sex offenders? Those that have already been charged with possessing child porn, sexual assault, etc...How do we keep THEM from abusing this policy?

Maybe we need to start documenting who is who and start putting them into our ID's and have a scan system? Expensive, yes, but there's no way to tell the sexual predator from the trans-(wo)man under this policy.

We all know it only takes one incident to completely change the face of how we do things in this country, even if it happens .000000001% of the time.

 
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Landlord of Memorial Stadium said:
JJHusker1 said:
What "rights" of these trans people are being trampled now? They can use public restrooms, no? Or, they can choose to largely avoid public restrooms in most cases, just like most sane people do. Call me crazy, a person with a penis is a man in my mind. Is it really discriminatory to expect them to use the same facilities as all other people with penis'? Really, that's discrimination?
Click to expand...
Fun fact: There are zero documented instances of assault, harassment or abuse by trans women (in your mind, men) towards women in women's bathrooms. There is not a single instance in public record where this has ever happened.

Conversely, when North Carolina passed their bill which does exactly what you want, bans trans people from using a bathroom that doesn't match their born-with genitalia, suicide calls to a crisis hotline for trans people, doubled, and a paper by the Williams institute out of UCLA remarked that 70% of trans people have reported being denied access, verbally harassed, or physically assaulted in public restrooms.
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As Coach just said and as I've said a bunch of times already, I'm not worried about the trans people. I'm worried about the policy that would in effect let anyone enter any restroom they wish. My primary concern would be male sexual predators or voyeurs or peeping Tom types being allowed access to the women's restroom.
I really am not concerned about the trans people, to my knowledge, they have an extremely lower tendency towards these deviant behaviors than the typical heterosexual man. At least those are the guys we hear about daily causing the problems. If we open both doors controlled only by what any certain person wants to do on any given day, I believe we are increasing the chances for abuse. It's not that I believe trans people will be the ones causing the problems but rather the stupid policy change that I don't think serves society as whole very well.

I would be interested to see the study that you claim suicides doubled over this in NC. It brings forward quite a few questions. 1-if thesee trans people were using the bathroom they wanted to before the law change and going undetected, why would they change what they were doing and why would suicides increase? If you think about it, it really seems like some made up BS. I don't recall of ever hearing about one problem of a trans person using the wrong bathroom before. Were they really suffering in silence.....with a lower suicide rate? 2 plus 2 do not equal 4 in your stated results of the change in NC.

 
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To be more clear, I am not for introducing laws that ban trans people from using whichever restroom they are comfortable with. But I am against laws or places like Target changing policy to state that people can use whichever room they feel like. It's a subtle difference but an important one in my way of thinking. It leaves things unchanged and does not open the door and turn on the light for the typical (non-trans) male sexual predator, voyeur or peeper.

 
And I've already said it before, women can be peeping "Toms" too. There's nothing to stop a woman from watching me while I pee except thin cracks in the stall door. There are also plenty of male sexual predators who are interested in men.

I also feel like this is the last place a sexual predator would try something like that.

 
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Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.

 
Moiraine said:
And I've already said it before, women can be peeping "Toms" too. There's nothing to stop a woman from watching me while I pee except thin cracks in the stall door. There are also plenty of male sexual predators who are interested in men.

I also feel like this is the last place a sexual predator would try something like that.
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Yes Moiraine, women can be sexual predators and voyeurs and peeping Tom's too. Let me know when the incidence of women doing these things even remotely approaches the number of incidents by men.
I just think people are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist all in the name of trying to be seen as inclusive. I'm not proposing we ban trans from certain restrooms, I'm saying don't change anything at all. Heck the suicide rate of trans people apparently increased due to a change, so let's not change things.

 
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teachercd said:
Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.
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Yeah, I would rather be outside doing yard work but it has been raining and snowing for about 4 straight days. Gotta do something with that time.

 
"What about sex offenders? Those that have already been charged with possessing child porn, sexual assault, etc...How do we keep THEM from abusing this policy?"

How do we monitor or keep them from doing so now?

 
teachercd said:
Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.
Click to expand...
One can not care about a topic and still discuss it without pretending to care.
Now onto a more important topic. One which bothers me enough that I've probably posted about it before.

I have a huge pet peeve when it comes to public restrooms. If I enter a place with 10 stalls and they're all empty, it's okay to pick any stall but the wheel chair one.

But there are rules the 2nd person needs to abide by to avoid being considered a freak. At least by me.

There are now 9 empty stalls to choose from. Do not, under any circumstances, pick the stall next to me. This happens to me an astounding number of times. What the hell is wrong with people? Are they so afraid of being alone that they have to pee right next to a stranger??

 
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Moiraine said:
teachercd said:
Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.
Click to expand...
One can not care about a topic and still discuss it without pretending to care.
Now onto a more important topic. One which bothers me enough that I've probably posted about it before.

I have a huge pet peeve when it comes to public restrooms. If I enter a place with 10 stalls and they're all empty, it's okay to pick any stall but the wheel chair one.

But there are rules the 2nd person needs to abide by to avoid being considered a freak. At least by me.

There are now 9 empty stalls to choose from. Do not, under any circumstances, pick the stall next to me. This happens to me an astounding number of times. What the hell is wrong with people? Are they so afraid of being alone that they have to pee right next to a stranger??
Click to expand...
Did you know that statistically the first stall in the bathroom is significantly less "germy"? Most people go long, and take all their germs with them. So I might be right next to you if you've chosen the 2nd stall. Cuz I always choose the first.

 
Moiraine said:
teachercd said:
Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.
Click to expand...
One can not care about a topic and still discuss it without pretending to care.Now onto a more important topic. One which bothers me enough that I've probably posted about it before.

I have a huge pet peeve when it comes to public restrooms. If I enter a place with 10 stalls and they're all empty, it's okay to pick any stall but the wheel chair one.

But there are rules the 2nd person needs to abide by to avoid being considered a freak. At least by me.

There are now 9 empty stalls to choose from. Do not, under any circumstances, pick the stall next to me. This happens to me an astounding number of times. What the hell is wrong with people? Are they so afraid of being alone that they have to pee right next to a stranger??
Click to expand...
Try the men's urinal and see how creepy the same experience is.

Or the one that happenes to me two weeks ago in a plant in Canada. I go in to do the ole number one and there are four open spots. The first one I usually don't use because it's too close to the toilet stalls and someone would have to squeeze by to use the others, so I move on down. But some guy is occupying the third stall. His legs are spread so far apart that his foot he is in the middle of the either stall beside him, and he doesn't budge. I just kinda had to turn myself sideways and squeeze in until he left... awk sauce!

 
Moiraine said:
teachercd said:
Is this one of those topics that no one really cares about but they are just pretending that they care about it?

The only time I feel "weird" in the can is when the person next to me is either talking on their phone and I don't know they are on the phone at first...or if they are making tons of noise.

I have a feeling that none of us ACTUALLY care about this topic. By that I mean, will start or stop shopping at Target.
Click to expand...
One can not care about a topic and still discuss it without pretending to care.Now onto a more important topic. One which bothers me enough that I've probably posted about it before.

I have a huge pet peeve when it comes to public restrooms. If I enter a place with 10 stalls and they're all empty, it's okay to pick any stall but the wheel chair one.

But there are rules the 2nd person needs to abide by to avoid being considered a freak. At least by me.

There are now 9 empty stalls to choose from. Do not, under any circumstances, pick the stall next to me. This happens to me an astounding number of times. What the hell is wrong with people? Are they so afraid of being alone that they have to pee right next to a stranger??
Click to expand...
It's possible they are using a different criteria to select the stall they use. I will always pick the one that is the cleanest. Often times that happens to be the spacious wheelchair stall and I really don't concern myself it happens to be one located next to an occupied stall. I simply pick the one least likely to transmit any filth or disease.

Besides that, how are we going to slap a low five under the stall when one of us emits a loud noise. Can't accomplish that public restroom requirement without being seated next door to someone. ;-)

 
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