Target, Bathrooms, & a PC culture

[Mierin]

Gender IS a societal construct. Sex is not. There are things men do better than women and vice versa and they are different. But men aren't born to wear pants and like blue and play with trucks and women aren't born to wear dresses and make up and like pink and play with dolls. Which is why I don't understand gender reassignment surgeries. I think people have the surgeries due to societal expectations and what society tells them they should be like if they're born with certain genitalia. I think what most transgendered people are fighting against, maybe without realizing it, is societal norms. Not the actual biological sex they were born with.

*note: I did not watch the videos yet

 

[JJ Husker]

gen·der

ˈjendər/Submit

noun

1.

the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

"traditional concepts of gender"

synonyms: sex

I found it a little conflicting that this source gave a reasonable definition for gender but then listed sex as a synonym. I can accept that gender is more of a societal construct insofar as it refers to the state of being male or female but is not a person's sex dependent upon biological factors. Have we arrived at the point where there is just no objective difference between male and female? Between man and woman? Girl and boy?.....Human and feline?

 

[JJ Husker]

Gender IS a societal construct. Sex is not. There are things men do better than women and vice versa and they are different. But men aren't born to wear pants and like blue and play with trucks and women aren't born to wear dresses and make up and like pink and play with dolls. Which is why I don't understand gender reassignment surgeries. I think people have the surgeries due to societal expectations and what society tells them they should be like if they're born with certain genitalia. I think what most transgendered people are fighting against, maybe without realizing it, is societal norms. Not the actual biological sex they were born with.

*note: I did not watch the videos yet

I pretty much agree with this but, what I don't understand is how or why a boy who likes pink and dolls or a girl who likes blue and trucks needs to be allowed and accepted, based on their feelings, in public restrooms that are segregated according to biological sex. The more I think about it, I am really struggling with why a person's self proclaimed "gender feeling" is a protected status while their biological sex is ignored.

A couple examples;

The most obvious example we have in this country would be the discrimination black people have suffered. But they ARE black. It is a fact and objectively true. It is not based on how they feel about it today or tomorrow or yesterday. It can be proven. It's reasonable that race can be protected class status.

Another protected status, handicapped. That has nothing to do with how the person "feels". It is simply a scientific fact of their being.

Shouldn't protected class status be based on biological or scientifically provable conditions and not on opinions and feelings and currently popular ideas? Seems like that just opens the door for any crazy claim. If a boy claims he is really a girl and society has to adjust for it, where does it stop? With the girl who claims she is really a cat? With the 70 year old man who claims he is a rock? Why is the claim of a human being a rock any less deserving of consideration?

 

[JJ Husker]

Wow! Just wow. Look what we have to look forward to when those "educated" students start running things. They can't even tell a 5'-9" white guy that he is not a 6'-5" Chinese woman. I found it funny how they basically didn't blink an eye when he told them he was a woman but then noticeably began to squirm when he said he was Chinese and then they wanted to draw the line at the height claim but wouldn't because it would expose the idiocy of their prior "accepting" behavior.
I attempted to make this same point earlier in the thread but the video did a much better job of it.

 

[JJ Husker]

"Gender is a societal construct"

Holy sh#t Batman. I am laughing my a$$ off at some of those responses to the simplest of questions. Who was responsible for teaching these kids? They failed miserably. My daughter is strongly considering college in Seattle....might have to put my foot down if any of that is a possible result of the education they are offering in the state of Washington. Where did we go wrong? There has to be clear point of demarcation from reality in our past that can be pinpointed. Or has it really just been a gentle slide away from sanity?

 

[Landlord]

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

The way this is playing out is the way I see most issues play out in America today. The right leans towards truth and justice, often lacking compassion/empathy and wanting to protect what they've known even at the expense of other people. The left leans towards compassion and empathy, but often gets ahead of itself in zeal and can make a mess of things in the name of loving/protecting people without actually knowing what they're getting into. When the left wins we have stuff like this, when the right wins we have stuff like the war on drugs. Neither ends up good.

 

[JJ Husker]

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

The way this is playing out is the way I see most issues play out in America today. The right leans towards truth and justice, often lacking compassion/empathy and wanting to protect what they've known even at the expense of other people. The left leans towards compassion and empathy, but often gets ahead of itself in zeal and can make a mess of things in the name of loving/protecting people without actually knowing what they're getting into. When the left wins we have stuff like this, when the right wins we have stuff like the war on drugs. Neither ends up good.

Why does it have to be left vs right? Why can't simple common sense win anymore?

 

[teachercd]

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

The way this is playing out is the way I see most issues play out in America today. The right leans towards truth and justice, often lacking compassion/empathy and wanting to protect what they've known even at the expense of other people. The left leans towards compassion and empathy, but often gets ahead of itself in zeal and can make a mess of things in the name of loving/protecting people without actually knowing what they're getting into. When the left wins we have stuff like this, when the right wins we have stuff like the war on drugs. Neither ends up good.

Why does it have to be left vs right? Why can't simple common sense win anymore?

Yep! You have some great posts in this thread and this is one of them.

 

[knapplc]

Seriously people.

At what point, at Memorial Stadium, does a large segment of women decide to spontaneously and temporarily re-designate themselves as male to take advantage of shorter bathroom lines? Those women's restroom lines are a mess! The men's line moves much faster.

There may be only thing protecting us now. Thank god for urinals. But do we lose those at some point too!?!?

I know you are trying to be funny, and it actually was a successful attempt.
However, this is legitimately the dumbest most profound "decree" I've ever heard.

I was actually starting to think it'd be a good thing if Obama was elected for a third term. After this, he's back in the dumpster, never to be revisited again.

I couldn't remotely tell you the year, I want to say it was in the early 90s, before the Championship run, that this very situation happened. The women's bathrooms used to be about the same size or smaller than the men's, and since they use stalls (and not troughs), the number of potties available was much smaller. North stadium, a bunch of women got fed up with their line and took over a men's bathroom before a game. If I recall, nobody complained, the guys understood, and it was part of the reason that they greatly expanded the women's restrooms during all the remodeling of the Stadium in subsequent years.

 

[JJ Husker]

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

I'm not too concerned if PC is the correct name for stuff like this but the first part of this sentence piqued my interest. If a policy like this is good and acceptable for the general public, how does it become overreaching and dangerous in our schools? Surely it's either good or bad for all restroom and locker room locations? Please explain why it was good enough for a Target restroom but a dangerous thing in a high school restroom or locker room.

 

[TonyStalloni]

^

 

[Atbone95]

In somewhat related news, BRUCE Jenner is having regrets and highly considering transitioning back to male. What a blow to the transgender community that would be.

 

[JJ Husker]

Seriously people. At what point, at Memorial Stadium, does a large segment of women decide to spontaneously and temporarily re-designate themselves as male to take advantage of shorter bathroom lines? Those women's restroom lines are a mess! The men's line moves much faster. There may be only thing protecting us now. Thank god for urinals. But do we lose those at some point too!?!?

I know you are trying to be funny, and it actually was a successful attempt. However, this is legitimately the dumbest most profound "decree" I've ever heard. I was actually starting to think it'd be a good thing if Obama was elected for a third term. After this, he's back in the dumpster, never to be revisited again.

I couldn't remotely tell you the year, I want to say it was in the early 90s, before the Championship run, that this very situation happened. The women's bathrooms used to be about the same size or smaller than the men's, and since they use stalls (and not troughs), the number of potties available was much smaller. North stadium, a bunch of women got fed up with their line and took over a men's bathroom before a game. If I recall, nobody complained, the guys understood, and it was part of the reason that they greatly expanded the women's restrooms during all the remodeling of the Stadium in subsequent years.

In that situation and under those conditions, that is completely understandable. I wouldn't have any problem with that at all. The stadium is/was notorious for not having enough facilities. That wouldn't bother me anyplace that it's obvious people need to take care of their business. But, as you know, that is a much different situation than an open invitation under normal conditions or the special concerns inherent in a middle school or high school.

I'm not directing this at you but rather just being proactive for those that would use this common sense example to support a more far reaching policy. Unfortunately, I felt this disclaimer was necessary.

 

[NUance]

That little video was very well done. Nice ending: "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

It seems like some of the college students interviewed are willing to throw common sense out the window in order to accommodate any hair-brained idea put before them. Especially when it comes to sex related issues.

 

[Landlord]

I think Obama's thing is overreaching and dangerous, but assigning it the label "PC" is a misnomer.

I'm not too concerned if PC is the correct name for stuff like this but the first part of this sentence piqued my interest. If a policy like this is good and acceptable for the general public, how does it become overreaching and dangerous in our schools? Surely it's either good or bad for all restroom and locker room locations? Please explain why it was good enough for a Target restroom but a dangerous thing in a high school restroom or locker room.

Why is there a drinking age? Age of consent?