Thoughts, Beliefs and Feelings vs Scientific/Biological "Truth"

Scratchtown

Scratchtown

New member
I see an interesting development among American society. My questions to everyone and this is real and genuine with NO agenda. An actual civil question. Here goes....

Are "thoughts, beliefs and feelings" more relevant to truth than that of "scientific and biological" origin? What side to you lean on? Is it something that doesn't stay the same across all categories?

If you lean scientific and biological...is that relevant to you in ALL circumstances?

In my opinion I feel we've developed double standards in areas of how we think. Here's the example. Someone believes in God, and takes a scientific stance on Male/Female differences. And vice versa. Someone believes in what you can see (Science/Biology) and yet when it comes to male/female differences, they believe in fluidity.

This isn't an "I gotcha" question....Honestly curious about some thoughts on it. I'm sure a lot of us will differ (as usual.)

 
I think it's a little dangerous to be fully one side of the feelings/fact fence. If you ignore facts, you wind up making uninformed, potentially damaging decisions. Let's use Newt "you can have your facts" Gingrich here. He feels that violence has gone up in America when facts say otherwise, which leads him to endorsing legislation that perhaps won't do anything to continue curbing violence and, in fact, may increase violence. But ignoring feelings isn't necessarily the right way to go, either. You're going to come across situations in which you're unable to use facts to make a decision. These situations are more likely ones that are novel, unexpected, and require a quick decision. If you tried to come up with every fact for every situation you encounter, you're going to be a very slow thinker, which can also be dangerous in some cases.

So, there are some scenarios where feelings are greater than facts and some where facts are greater than feelings. So it's healthy to have a balance between both.

 
ZRod said:
Those are still Scientific and biological facts. Yes you are born with a sex, but mentally you still identify as the opposite gender. There is something going on chemically in the brain which is driving you to identify that way.
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Would you call that a normal function or no? scientifically speaking....

 
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The problem with this is there is the underlying assumption that the 'facts' and 'scientific evidence' that is being cited as proof of a given statement or circumstance is being delivered by those with built in agendas and biases which are already contrary to the other side of the argument. If the 'scientists' don't believe in God, for example, then they tend to present the scientific evidence which purports to defend their opinions, often disregarding the contrary evidence.

We have seen dramatic cases wherein the 'scientific' community is claiming there is man caused global warming based on made up scientific 'data'. This obviously completely undermines their side. They need to be honest and sincerely factual and not demonstrating the often hidden agendas which they are actively pursuing. Until the science is truly scientific and NOT fabricated in support of a cause or agenda, the feelings and contrary agendas will continue unabated.

 
Great topic. I believe in God but also consider myself a hard science type. I'm certainly not aware of any scientific facts that disprove God. I'm not even aware of any scientific facts that make God's creation of the universe any less likely than the Big Bang Theory and eons of random occurrences.

As for gender, I've learned recently that this is an incredibly sensitive topic. Some people who claim to be in favor of equal rights are incredibly thin skinned when you speak about women in frank, matter of fact terms as you would about men. It gets them all worked up and hurts their feelings. Go figure.
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Edit: As I re-read the OP, I see that my post is a bit off topic. I am speaking more in terms of feelings/science regarding topics such as the existence of God and women's rights. I wasn't really thinking in terms of gender identity.

 
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Coach Power said:
ZRod said:
Those are still Scientific and biological facts. Yes you are born with a sex, but mentally you still identify as the opposite gender. There is something going on chemically in the brain which is driving you to identify that way.
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Would you call that a normal function or no? scientifically speaking....
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Obviously statistically speaking it wouldn't be "normal" because it probably doesn't fall under the bell curve. But like INAFID said, after that it becomes an issue of societal norms and ethics/morality I suppose.
 
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84HuskerLaw said:
The problem with this is there is the underlying assumption that the 'facts' and 'scientific evidence' that is being cited as proof of a given statement or circumstance is being delivered by those with built in agendas and biases which are already contrary to the other side of the argument. If the 'scientists' don't believe in God, for example, then they tend to present the scientific evidence which purports to defend their opinions, often disregarding the contrary evidence.

We have seen dramatic cases wherein the 'scientific' community is claiming there is man caused global warming based on made up scientific 'data'. This obviously completely undermines their side. They need to be honest and sincerely factual and not demonstrating the often hidden agendas which they are actively pursuing. Until the science is truly scientific and NOT fabricated in support of a cause or agenda, the feelings and contrary agendas will continue unabated.
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Please show me proof of this? The only people in disagreement are largely those funded by opposition groups who have it in their best interest to keep the status quo.
 
What an interesting question Coach - it certainly is a time where I think many groups are preying on peoples feelings and making them into perceived beliefs.

I'm a fact person - I want information to prove or deny a statement that anybody says as fact. Its really that though, I cringe and every hair on my neck goes up when someone says a statement like (i.e. "the park and rec guy is the most overpaid guy on staff") and there's no absolutely no basis for it. I'll totally engage with someone however that poses the same topic as "I question why we pay the park and rec guy $X when he really only works 3 months of the year")

I feel strongly about many things, but if I really drill down to it, those feelings are based in fact. I feel strongly that women are not perceived as equals in the work place. I've experienced it, and that would be enough "fact" per say, but there's also a lot of information to support that. I'm racking my brain trying to think of something I believe that's not based in fact ... that Husker fans are the greatest in college fb, but then I seek information out to support that.
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bad examples I know - jet lagged.

 
Coach Power'T said:
ZRod said:
Those are still Scientific and biological facts. Yes you are born with a sex, but mentally you still identify as the opposite gender. There is something going on chemically in the brain which is driving you to identify that way.
Click to expand...
Would you call that a normal function or no? scientifically speaking....
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What's "normal"? Yours may be different than mine than someone who lives in China.

With regard to if a transgender person can be explained scientifically (which is what I think you were getting at) I think that answer is yes.

My way of thinking is, "this is scientifically proven - chemical or physical or psych" and I "believe" that all people are people I "feel" that they should be treated as they ask to be treated.

 
NUance said:
Great topic. I believe in God but also consider myself a hard science type. I'm certainly not aware of any scientific facts that disprove God. I'm not even aware of any scientific facts that make God's creation of the universe any less likely than the Big Bang Theory and eons of random occurrences.

As for gender, I've learned recently that this is an incredibly sensitive topic. Some people who claim to be in favor of equal rights are incredibly thin skinned when you speak about women in frank, matter of fact terms as you would about men. It gets them all worked up and hurts their feelings. Go figure.
default_dunno.gif
:

Edit: As I re-read the OP, I see that my post is a bit off topic. I am speaking more in terms of feelings/science regarding topics such as the existence of God and women's rights. I wasn't really thinking in terms of gender identity.
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Help me out Nuance - what would be an ex of something you'd say to a man that when you've said it to a woman that found they're think skinned about?

 
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I believe in God but I tend to lean towards scientific explanations for things, though not in all cases. I think you can take an analytical approach to life while still believing in a higher power.

I've had enough personal experiences to know that not everything can be explained by science, or vice versa.

 
NM11046 said:
Coach Power'T said:
ZRod said:
Those are still Scientific and biological facts. Yes you are born with a sex, but mentally you still identify as the opposite gender. There is something going on chemically in the brain which is driving you to identify that way.
Click to expand...
Would you call that a normal function or no? scientifically speaking....
Click to expand...
What's "normal"? Yours may be different than mine than someone who lives in China.

With regard to if a transgender person can be explained scientifically (which is what I think you were getting at) I think that answer is yes.

My way of thinking is, "this is scientifically proven - chemical or physical or psych" and I "believe" that all people are people I "feel" that they should be treated as they ask to be treated.
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Well That's kind of what I was asking. Scientifically is there suppose to be a set way for brain function or does the ones that "stray" from "normal" count toward abnormal brain function even though they are still a person?

Trying to be clear that I'm not stating MY normal as the normal portrayed in my post.

 
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