RedDenver
New member
Calling Perry a buffoon is certainly opinion, but there's lots of evidence to support that opinion.
What would make people feel less ostracized from P&R?
- Thread starter knapplc
- Start date
Danny Bateman
Donor
Yes. I don't see why Trump getting elected means Obama was awful. I don't see why that has to be a zero-sum game. And I know for me, personally, even though Trump will likely try to govern in a way that is diametrically opposed to Obama on most everything, nothing Trump does will affect my opinion of Obama as a president or a person. If anything, Trump makes me appreciate him a lot more. The whole birther nonsense illustrates to me the night and day difference between the character of the two men.
Also, it's just super hard for political party to get elected for a third term. No one has done that since HW.
Part of the point others are making here is to not vent at others for their posting styles. You seem upset or disappointed more people here vilify Trump and not Obama/Democrats. So cut out the middleman. Just attack them yourself, if that's how you feel. If you can make a solid argument and support it, no one will complain about seeing your opinions.
You're right to say there aren't a lot of strong Republican voices here at the moment. You could be one.
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HuskerNation1
New member
And your past 2 sets of comments are a great example of why many huskerboard posters refuse to engage this this forum. I have seen various studies done about political leanings of sports fans, and it has indicated that college football fans tend to lean more to the right, where WNBA and tennis and other sports lean to the left. Is it exact...of course not. But it's come up on a few different occasions. When you factor in that Nebraska is a very red state, and the highest number of posters in this forum are likely from Nebraska or surrounding Conservative states, I would bet that a good majority of overall huskerboard posters do lean to the right. Do I have the exact data to support this...no. But I think its a highly educated guess. So with that in mind, if one such poster ventures into this forum and clicks on the "Trump's America" thread, or the "Trump's Cabinet" thread, or the "Trump Fascist" thread, and many others, and they read a quick sampling of comments, it will become very apparent that there is not much diversity of thought going on in this forum (what I like to call groupthink). It's not to say that there are not some nuanced differences on some subjects, but it's still all a part of the same general sandbox. It almost reminds me of going into an opposing team's forums (such as Wisconsin) and putting in your comments...in more cases than not, it's unwelcome territory like entering the lion's den. So as I have shared two other times in this thread, I am certainly guilty of some very harsh criticism of Obama and his tenure as POTUS, but the scale is nothing in comparison to what has been displayed against Trump and Republicans in general.
http://www.businessinsider.com/politics-sports-you-like-2013-3
Danny Bateman
Donor
I'd like to point out another thing I noticed.
Part of the problem seems to stem from the fact that we all just speak different political dialects.
For instance, in the Immigration thread, one poster is heavily pushing the point that there is very little data to support the fact that we're actually unsafe due to immigration.
On the other hand, another poster is explaining that they don't scrutinizing our vetting procedures hoping for improvement is a bad idea.
See what's going on there? Poster A is relying on data/facts to craft their argument, the other is mostly speaking about their personal opinions and feelings to create theirs.
There's not necessarily anything wrong with that. It probably just reflects how we've grown up, politically speaking, and the type of media/information environments we frequent.
I'm personally a lot more like Poster A. Went to school for Neuroscience and continuing on into the med field. In that career tract, everything is built on evidence and observable fact. So it makes sense that when we make an argument, we set out to do it by verifying it with data.
But all politics, to some degree, is about opinions. I just think sometimes posters wind up talking past each other because they're appealing to different things.
Part of the problem seems to stem from the fact that we all just speak different political dialects.
For instance, in the Immigration thread, one poster is heavily pushing the point that there is very little data to support the fact that we're actually unsafe due to immigration.
On the other hand, another poster is explaining that they don't scrutinizing our vetting procedures hoping for improvement is a bad idea.
See what's going on there? Poster A is relying on data/facts to craft their argument, the other is mostly speaking about their personal opinions and feelings to create theirs.
There's not necessarily anything wrong with that. It probably just reflects how we've grown up, politically speaking, and the type of media/information environments we frequent.
I'm personally a lot more like Poster A. Went to school for Neuroscience and continuing on into the med field. In that career tract, everything is built on evidence and observable fact. So it makes sense that when we make an argument, we set out to do it by verifying it with data.
But all politics, to some degree, is about opinions. I just think sometimes posters wind up talking past each other because they're appealing to different things.
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NM11046
Donor
Holy smokes - do some travelling and step away from the board and whole lotta shakin' going on!
What I try to remember when in these discussions where there are strong opinions ... posing your comments as a question rather than a statement is an easy way to diffuse a potentially aggressive conversation. (Zoogs does a great job of this pretty consistantly). We are all here to learn and share our opinions, but just asking someone "tell me more about why you say that" rather than, "thats just not true" is an easy way to make sure we aren't putting fellow Huskers back on their heels in defense.
Cant say Im able to do it all the time, but I find when I do its a better dialouge and often I have more of an appreciation of the whys and hows behind someone's belief.
Now to you conservatives - you're all just wrong. (Jk)
What I try to remember when in these discussions where there are strong opinions ... posing your comments as a question rather than a statement is an easy way to diffuse a potentially aggressive conversation. (Zoogs does a great job of this pretty consistantly). We are all here to learn and share our opinions, but just asking someone "tell me more about why you say that" rather than, "thats just not true" is an easy way to make sure we aren't putting fellow Huskers back on their heels in defense.
Cant say Im able to do it all the time, but I find when I do its a better dialouge and often I have more of an appreciation of the whys and hows behind someone's belief.
Now to you conservatives - you're all just wrong. (Jk)
HuskerNation1
New member
Thanks for the polite and non-aggressive reply....very well done. The reason I say that Trump's election dampened Obama's legacy is twofold:
1. Trump, a guy nobody said should have a chance to ever get elected, did so partly because Hillary was a terrible candidate and its difficult for the same party to win 3 times in a row, so I agree with this. But a bigger part is the reality for many that the country was not headed in the right direction, as was shown throughout much of Obama's 2nd term with a wrong track figure in the 60s and low 70s. There were hundreds of counties that Obama won in 2012 that went to Trump. Also, Obama went out and campaigned openly that Trump winning would be a ding on his legacy, so Obama was on the ballot indirectly. And Hillary was also running as Obama's 3rd term. She openly embraced Obama and his policies throughout the campaign.
2. The more simple explanation is that Trump won and has Republicans in control of the House and Senate, and he has already begun to undo parts of Obama's legacy. Now there will be things Obama did that cannot be undone, but there are others that are already being undone.
As for the part in bold, it is what it is on here and its not representative at all of this nation which is more of an evenly split. Part of the frustration is the overwhelming negative views toward Republicans, but it's also the stuff you have seen in this thread where those who come in with a different voice or perspective are labeled as being hostile yet my opinion-based comments are no different than many on here that bash Republicans, and some simply refuse to admit this, or they are so blinded they don't see it. I appreciate that you admit that this is not a friendly forum for Republicans which do represent the majority of all levels of the federal government as well as a majority of the state governorships and legislatures.
JJ Husker
Donor
I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on how conservatives are wrong?
Did I do it right? /jk
Making Chimichangas
Banned
@binilhome said: And your past 2 sets of comments are a great example of why many huskerboard posters refuse to engage this this forum. I have seen various studies done about political leanings of sports fans, and it has indicated that college football fans tend to lean more to the right, where WNBA and tennis and other sports lean to the left. Is it exact...of course not. But it's come up on a few different occasions. When you factor in that Nebraska is a very red state, and the highest number of posters in this forum are likely from Nebraska or surrounding Conservative states, I would bet that a good majority of overall huskerboard posters do lean to the right. Do I have the exact data to support this...no. But I think its a highly educated guess. So with that in mind, if one such poster ventures into this forum and clicks on the "Trump's America" thread, or the "Trump's Cabinet" thread, or the "Trump Fascist" thread, and many others, and they read a quick sampling of comments, it will become very apparent that there is not much diversity of thought going on in this forum (what I like to call groupthink). It's not to say that there are not some nuanced differences on some subjects, but it's still all a part of the same general sandbox. It almost reminds me of going into an opposing team's forums (such as Wisconsin) and putting in your comments...in more cases than not, it's unwelcome territory like entering the lion's den. So as I have shared two other times in this thread, I am certainly guilty of some very harsh criticism of Obama and his tenure as POTUS, but the scale is nothing in comparison to what has been displayed against Trump and Republicans in general.
So you think the harsh criticism we've had for Trump is far more in excess than what Obama received? Talk about a one-sided view.
I want to ask you two questions, and please, put some serious thought into these before answering:
1. Do you think there would there be less vitriol and hate directed at Republicans, if there wasn't something racist, sexist, and/or derogatory about gays/trans/queers, non-whites, non-christians, immigrants, etc coming out of it when they speak?
2. Maybe if Republicans actually got to know us, engage us with civil dialogue, and stop introducing and passing laws to demonize us, and strip away our rights and humanity, that maybe the Republican agenda might make in-roads into groups of people who traditionally have been Democrats/Liberals?
So you think the harsh criticism we've had for Trump is far more in excess than what Obama received? Talk about a one-sided view.
I want to ask you two questions, and please, put some serious thought into these before answering:
1. Do you think there would there be less vitriol and hate directed at Republicans, if there wasn't something racist, sexist, and/or derogatory about gays/trans/queers, non-whites, non-christians, immigrants, etc coming out of it when they speak?
2. Maybe if Republicans actually got to know us, engage us with civil dialogue, and stop introducing and passing laws to demonize us, and strip away our rights and humanity, that maybe the Republican agenda might make in-roads into groups of people who traditionally have been Democrats/Liberals?
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JJ Husker
Donor
The only thing I'd add at this point is, when you have the two terrible candidates we did, this bashing was basically inevitable. Of course people are railing on Trump, he's a frikken joke. If Hillary had won, she be taking a beating too. Although admittedly, probably not near as bad Trump. I mean you have to be pretty blind to not see the ridiculous and unprecedented and extremely unpresidential things he is doing. I am very happy I didn't vote for either one of them. Our whole political system is one big bad joke, evidenced by the scum too many people felt forced to choose from. One bit of advice, don't settle or rationalize a bad choice ever again. There were two wrongs in this election and people were duped into picking one of them. Just say no, polls and chances be damned.
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RedDenver
New member
If people don't like Trump or Republicans or Democrats or socialists or progressives or etc. being criticized, then maybe political discussions and debates aren't for them.
And maybe the criticism of Trump and the Republicans is much larger right now because they hold most of the positions of power in the government right now. I'd bet the same was true the other way when Obama was first elected and the Dems held the Senate and the House. If Hilary was the president and the Dems were holding all the power, I'd have a lot of strong criticisms of them as well.
JJ Husker
Donor
I have the feeling we're all going to want to drink A LOT over the next 4 years. I'll have a few with ya.
HuskerNation1
New member
I agree both were not great candidates. The reality is that if Hillary had won, you would see maybe 1/10th of the negative comments on here that you are seeing about Trump. It's just the nature of how posters in this forum lean.
HuskerNation1
New member
Hi there-I think there is vitriol on both sides...things have gotten nasty. As it pertains to my experience in this huskerboard forum, there is FAR MORE nasty comments and criticism of Trump than I saw of Obama and Democrats, and others who like Obama or lean to the left have admitted it throughout this thread. As for your other points, there are crazies in both parties, and as I shared earlier, neither party owns the mantle of being more tolerant. The right has been anti-gay for a while though that is improving. The left has not been tolerant of Christians and those who are pro-life, and I say this as a generalization for both sides as not all Democrats are pushing an anti-Christian agenda, and not all Republicans have always been anti-gay. As for rights being stripped away, I think every group may feel their rights are being limited in one way or another. On the right some thing religious liberty, gun rights, and the right to run a business free of government regulations is under attack, and on the left its gay marriage and those types of things. I am fully supportive of gay marriage and have no issues with it.