Colin Kaepernick: dbag or not?

[Redux]

That's what Presidents do, they all lie. Every. One. Of. Them. He just happens to be a polarizing public figure that got elected. So instead of focusing on the politics a majority of citizens will just put what he says on social media etc. under. A microscope and b!^@h about it while nothing changes.

 

[Mierin]

Okay, then what?

Then people stop posting things like "so that counts for something" after believing another of his lies.

The more people who realize he's sick in the head, the better. I can't fathom (not talking about you here) why people let him get away with stuff they wouldn't forgive their neighbor for.

It's not exactly a lie, if he is waiting til the end of the year and does so, it wasn't a lie. Will everyone who accused him of lying own up to it? Doubtful. Even if they do it will be followed with a crapload of "yeah but...".
Everyone who hates him just assumes he is lying. That's why I can't get behind the "f#*k Trump" crowd. Default hate helps nothing.

Still waiting for an answer to then what? Convince someone Tump is a super evil lying bastard. Okay. Then what? Is there actually going to be some sort of uprising?

It is a lie, because he constantly lies. It's been shown over and over. You can see side by side video of his lies, and you could before he got elected. More specifically, he has lied about giving to charity and he had his charity shut down. It's a pretty damn safe bet that his promise to not accept his salary will have been a lie.
To your "that's what presidents do" comment - You're yet another person who seems to think "this is all normal, everyone lies, nothing to see here" and I don't see how anyone can think this is business as usual. It's not. You can go back alllll the way back to... the previous president, to see that it's not. Obama may have promised some things he couldn't carry out but that is not the same thing as intentionally lying. Bush lied about some very important things but not to the extent that Trump does, and so did Clinton, but not to the extent that Trump does.

I'm not sure what this "default hate" b.s. you're talking about is. There are many good reasons to be against Trump, and the fact he lies over and over has nothing to do with whether one hates him or not.

Also, lying is hardly the only thing wrong with Trump.

To the bolded, it should be pretty obvious most people aren't calling for an uprising or a revolution. There is an important election in 2018 and another important election in 2020. In the meantime if there is enough public pressure, an impeachment is possible.

 

[Mierin]

So instead of focusing on the politics a majority of citizens will just put what he says on social media etc. under. A microscope and b!^@h about it while nothing changes.

Also, maybe some people do this but pretty much no one does it on this forum. We have constantly been talking about the budget he wants to pass, his foreign policy, etc. That doesn't mean we're not going to talk about his other bullsh#t.

Also, calling him polarizing doesn't define him very well. Clinton, Bush, and Obama were polarizing. Trump is a dumb a$$ who puts the country in greater danger and shows authoritarian tendencies we haven't seen here before. He's a new animal.

 

[Redux]

Okay, then what?

Then people stop posting things like "so that counts for something" after believing another of his lies.

The more people who realize he's sick in the head, the better. I can't fathom (not talking about you here) why people let him get away with stuff they wouldn't forgive their neighbor for.

It's not exactly a lie, if he is waiting til the end of the year and does so, it wasn't a lie. Will everyone who accused him of lying own up to it? Doubtful. Even if they do it will be followed with a crapload of "yeah but...".Everyone who hates him just assumes he is lying. That's why I can't get behind the "f#*k Trump" crowd. Default hate helps nothing.

Still waiting for an answer to then what? Convince someone Tump is a super evil lying bastard. Okay. Then what? Is there actually going to be some sort of uprising?

It is a lie, because he constantly lies. It's been shown over and over. You can see side by side video of his lies, and you could before he got elected. More specifically, he has lied about giving to charity and he had his charity shut down. It's a pretty damn safe bet that his promise to not accept his salary will have been a lie.To your "that's what presidents do" comment - You're yet another person who seems to think "this is all normal, everyone lies, nothing to see here" and I don't see how anyone can think this is business as usual. It's not. You can go back alllll the way back to... the previous president, to see that it's not. Obama may have promised some things he couldn't carry out but that is not the same thing as intentionally lying. Bush lied about some very important things but not to the extent that Trump does, and so did Clinton, but not to the extent that Trump does.

Also, lying is hardly the only thing wrong with Trump.

To the bolded, it should be pretty obvious most people aren't calling for an uprising or a revolution. There is an important election in 2018 and another important election in 2020. In the meantime if there is enough public pressure, an impeachment is possible.

No, it's not a lie yet. It could end up being one, it may not. Yes, he lies. Like everyone else in politics. Yet he WAS elected. You can assume it's a lie, that's fine. I'll wait and see before assuming.

It's only differen't this time because the public was so familiar with the type of person Trump is for decades before he became President. That's pretty much it.

You don't have to like him, that's okay. I'm not particularly fond of him either.

The impeachment nonsense can be saved for when he actually does something that deserves it. Thus far it's all based on the fact people don't like him.

 

[VectorVictor]

We already know he's a blathering fool. I want to see proof of Trump ever making any sort of legitimate charitable contribution. Rounding my purchase at the grocery store up to the next dollar seems to be more than he gives.

I believe he agreed to forego his salary as POTUS and take only $1. That should count for something.

Promises promises. He also agreed to give hotel proceeds from his rooms rented to foreign governments to charity once elected, and that extra money from his inauguration would also go to charity and etc. We'll see. When the press called him out on those last week the staff scrambled and said he'd now do so at the end of the year. They have yet to disclose the monies not spent on the inauguration (that I know of)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-camp-made-three-big-promises-to-donate-money-to-charity-what-happened/2017/03/17/7c9ebaec-0a72-11e7-a15f-a58d4a988474_story.html?utm_term=.2512b0f84ca1

And there again is my question - are the promises enough? The bluster saying he'll donate and he does? Does it make any difference if/when we find out he doesn't? Seems many things have moved forward only because the press corp chased him on it.

From the WaPo article you linked, they're waiting on the press to make the determination as to where Trump should donate:

“The president’s intention right now is to donate his salary at the end of the year,” Spicer said, in response to a question from One America News Network reporter Trey Yingst. “And he has kindly asked that you all help determine where that goes. The way that we can avoid scrutiny is to let the press corps determine where it should go.”

I think Planned Parenthood would be a great destination for those funds.

 

[Mierin]

Okay, then what?

Then people stop posting things like "so that counts for something" after believing another of his lies.

The more people who realize he's sick in the head, the better. I can't fathom (not talking about you here) why people let him get away with stuff they wouldn't forgive their neighbor for.

It's not exactly a lie, if he is waiting til the end of the year and does so, it wasn't a lie. Will everyone who accused him of lying own up to it? Doubtful. Even if they do it will be followed with a crapload of "yeah but...".Everyone who hates him just assumes he is lying. That's why I can't get behind the "f#*k Trump" crowd. Default hate helps nothing.

Still waiting for an answer to then what? Convince someone Tump is a super evil lying bastard. Okay. Then what? Is there actually going to be some sort of uprising?

It is a lie, because he constantly lies. It's been shown over and over. You can see side by side video of his lies, and you could before he got elected. More specifically, he has lied about giving to charity and he had his charity shut down. It's a pretty damn safe bet that his promise to not accept his salary will have been a lie.To your "that's what presidents do" comment - You're yet another person who seems to think "this is all normal, everyone lies, nothing to see here" and I don't see how anyone can think this is business as usual. It's not. You can go back alllll the way back to... the previous president, to see that it's not. Obama may have promised some things he couldn't carry out but that is not the same thing as intentionally lying. Bush lied about some very important things but not to the extent that Trump does, and so did Clinton, but not to the extent that Trump does.

Also, lying is hardly the only thing wrong with Trump.

To the bolded, it should be pretty obvious most people aren't calling for an uprising or a revolution. There is an important election in 2018 and another important election in 2020. In the meantime if there is enough public pressure, an impeachment is possible.

No, it's not a lie yet. It could end up being one, it may not. Yes, he lies. Like everyone else in politics. Yet he WAS elected. You can assume it's a lie, that's fine. I'll wait and see before assuming.
It's only differen't this time because the public was so familiar with the type of person Trump is for decades before he became President. That's pretty much it.

You don't have to like him, that's okay. I'm not particularly fond of him either.

The impeachment nonsense can be saved for when he actually does something that deserves it. Thus far it's all based on the fact people don't like him.

You're blind, that's okay. You don't have to see.

 

[zoogs]

"every President lies" is how we end up with "anybody" as President.

Speaking of picking hills to die on, this is poor timing for the "Trump doesn't really lie, he's just misunderstood" one.

 

[Redux]

Okay, then what?

Then people stop posting things like "so that counts for something" after believing another of his lies.

The more people who realize he's sick in the head, the better. I can't fathom (not talking about you here) why people let him get away with stuff they wouldn't forgive their neighbor for.

It's not exactly a lie, if he is waiting til the end of the year and does so, it wasn't a lie. Will everyone who accused him of lying own up to it? Doubtful. Even if they do it will be followed with a crapload of "yeah but...".Everyone who hates him just assumes he is lying. That's why I can't get behind the "f#*k Trump" crowd. Default hate helps nothing.

Still waiting for an answer to then what? Convince someone Tump is a super evil lying bastard. Okay. Then what? Is there actually going to be some sort of uprising?

It is a lie, because he constantly lies. It's been shown over and over. You can see side by side video of his lies, and you could before he got elected. More specifically, he has lied about giving to charity and he had his charity shut down. It's a pretty damn safe bet that his promise to not accept his salary will have been a lie.To your "that's what presidents do" comment - You're yet another person who seems to think "this is all normal, everyone lies, nothing to see here" and I don't see how anyone can think this is business as usual. It's not. You can go back alllll the way back to... the previous president, to see that it's not. Obama may have promised some things he couldn't carry out but that is not the same thing as intentionally lying. Bush lied about some very important things but not to the extent that Trump does, and so did Clinton, but not to the extent that Trump does.

Also, lying is hardly the only thing wrong with Trump.

To the bolded, it should be pretty obvious most people aren't calling for an uprising or a revolution. There is an important election in 2018 and another important election in 2020. In the meantime if there is enough public pressure, an impeachment is possible.

No, it's not a lie yet. It could end up being one, it may not. Yes, he lies. Like everyone else in politics. Yet he WAS elected. You can assume it's a lie, that's fine. I'll wait and see before assuming.It's only differen't this time because the public was so familiar with the type of person Trump is for decades before he became President. That's pretty much it.You don't have to like him, that's okay.

I'm not particularly fond of him either.The impeachment nonsense can be saved for when he actually does something that deserves it. Thus far it's all based on the fact people don't like him.

You're blind, that's okay. You don't have to see.

No, I just prefer a middle stance instead of letting bias dictate my feelings.
How am I wrong? He is more scrutinized because he has been a public figure/celebrity for decades as opposed to our last several presidents who only became household names after their campaigns began.

Like most, you're assuming I am condoning Trump.

 

[Redux]

"every President lies" is how we end up with "anybody" as President.

Speaking of picking hills to die on, this is poor timing for the "Trump doesn't really lie, he's just misunderstood" one.

"Every president lies" is just fact. Where did I suggest that those lies were acceptable?
Until the out of date and broken two party system is done away with, we will continue voting in unqualified monkeys or corporate puppets instead of true leaders.

 

[zoogs]

Somewhere in this thread I got the feeling you were making excuses and false equivalencies nonstop in an attempt to reject all critical analysis of the Trump presidency to date.

 

[Redux]

Somewhere in this thread I got the feeling you were making excuses and false equivalencies nonstop in an attempt to reject all critical analysis of the Trump presidency to date.

Critique him all you want, could not care less. I didn't vote for him either. I just find the discussion to be a bit bias and I tend to take the minority side of a discussion.

 

[Mierin]

Okay, then what?

Then people stop posting things like "so that counts for something" after believing another of his lies.

The more people who realize he's sick in the head, the better. I can't fathom (not talking about you here) why people let him get away with stuff they wouldn't forgive their neighbor for.

It's not exactly a lie, if he is waiting til the end of the year and does so, it wasn't a lie. Will everyone who accused him of lying own up to it? Doubtful. Even if they do it will be followed with a crapload of "yeah but...".Everyone who hates him just assumes he is lying. That's why I can't get behind the "f#*k Trump" crowd. Default hate helps nothing.

Still waiting for an answer to then what? Convince someone Tump is a super evil lying bastard. Okay. Then what? Is there actually going to be some sort of uprising?

It is a lie, because he constantly lies. It's been shown over and over. You can see side by side video of his lies, and you could before he got elected. More specifically, he has lied about giving to charity and he had his charity shut down. It's a pretty damn safe bet that his promise to not accept his salary will have been a lie.To your "that's what presidents do" comment - You're yet another person who seems to think "this is all normal, everyone lies, nothing to see here" and I don't see how anyone can think this is business as usual. It's not. You can go back alllll the way back to... the previous president, to see that it's not. Obama may have promised some things he couldn't carry out but that is not the same thing as intentionally lying. Bush lied about some very important things but not to the extent that Trump does, and so did Clinton, but not to the extent that Trump does.

Also, lying is hardly the only thing wrong with Trump.

To the bolded, it should be pretty obvious most people aren't calling for an uprising or a revolution. There is an important election in 2018 and another important election in 2020. In the meantime if there is enough public pressure, an impeachment is possible.

No, it's not a lie yet. It could end up being one, it may not. Yes, he lies. Like everyone else in politics. Yet he WAS elected. You can assume it's a lie, that's fine. I'll wait and see before assuming.It's only differen't this time because the public was so familiar with the type of person Trump is for decades before he became President. That's pretty much it.You don't have to like him, that's okay.

I'm not particularly fond of him either.The impeachment nonsense can be saved for when he actually does something that deserves it. Thus far it's all based on the fact people don't like him.

You're blind, that's okay. You don't have to see.

No, I just prefer a middle stance instead of letting bias dictate my feelings.
How am I wrong? He is more scrutinized because he has been a public figure/celebrity for decades as opposed to our last several presidents who only became household names after their campaigns began.

Like most, you're assuming I am condoning Trump.

Nah, I'm not. You are acting like Trump is oldhat, just lying 'cause that's what politicians do. That isn't the case. This is a new animal.
Also, you don't seem to understand what bias means. Unbiased doesn't mean "middle." Unbiased doesn't mean "median" or "average." A person can hate or love a politician's actions without any bias whatsoever.

An example of bias would be loving each and every thing Trump does because he ran as a Republican, and hating a Democrat for doing the same exact things.

Or the reverse.

In stats bias means a tendency to under or overestimate the true value of a parameter. The parameter could be low or high or sh**ty or wonderful.

 

[knapplc]

Somewhere in this thread I got the feeling you were making excuses and false equivalencies nonstop in an attempt to reject all critical analysis of the Trump presidency to date.

Critique him all you want, could not care less. I didn't vote for him either. I just find the discussion to be a bit bias and I tend to take the minority side of a discussion.

So, the ONLY reason you defend Trump nonstop is because you're defending the minority position?

 

[mrandyk]

If one can't see Trump is entirely unfit for office and a threat to our nation by now, do their eyes ever open?

 

[zoogs]

Somewhere in this thread I got the feeling you were making excuses and false equivalencies nonstop in an attempt to reject all critical analysis of the Trump presidency to date.

Critique him all you want, could not care less. I didn't vote for him either. I just find the discussion to be a bit bias and I tend to take the minority side of a discussion.

This extended pushback is not what I would consider "could not care less". Regardless, I understand the appeal in playing devil's advocate, or searching for more moderate ground.

The problem is when one side stakes out extreme positions, they move the definition of "moderate" quite far -- that is, if you unconditionally steer towards middle ground. At some point it stops being reasonable to do so. Hence, I agree with Moiraine -- you have to have a certain blindness regarding Trump to justify this.

Not saying that you're being blind. Just that you're not interested in looking and, in lieu of that, adopting a blanket "I'm in between so I'm reasonable" stance. I mean, it appears to be either this or you're a fan of Trump eager to defend him on all grounds, but you are not that.