Douchebag Thread for Politics & Religion Spill Over

Someone mentioned the word "nuance" earlier. I feel like that whole discussion was based on a misunderstanding of good vs bad and universal healthcare (with heavy government involvement) vs not. People were merely arguing that Australia has universal health care with more government involvement, the ACA moved us somewhat closer to that, and the new GOP/Trump plan moves us away from that. Therefore his statement was notable.


So let me try my own analogy of the conversation. My attempt with this is to show that it wasn't a partisan discussion. The GOP themselves would say they don't want socialized medicine, and they would probably expect to gain votes from their base by saying it.

Fact: The current favorite color of the USA is a reddish purple. A few years ago it was mostly red. Australia's favorite color is blue.
Trump: Passes a law requiring everyone to wear red tinted glasses so that everything is red.
Trump: My favorite color is blue.
knapp: Trump just said "My favorite color is blue."
Redux: But his favorite color is blue - he wears blue all the time. I don't get the problem.
zoogs: He just passed a law requiring everyone to see everything in red - almost as red as things were a few years ago and less purple than they are right now.
Redux: I won't listen to you because your partisan views are biased
zoogs: But I'm just saying, seeing everything in red takes us further away from what Trump says is his favorite color
Redux: I don't know much about colors, I just know I want my colors to be less expensive and I know you're going to throw out a lot of facts at me about colors and I'm not interested in them because I don't have the time.

 
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El Diaco said:
The ridiculous thing is, all Redux said was that what Trump said was correct. Everybody agrees that Trump saying Australia's health care is better than our's is a true statement. But it is not well accepted to ever point out anything that Trump says or does might actually be right. So the story gets twisted to, well, Trump isn't heading us towards UHC so he's a dipsh#t. Australia has UHC so Trump is an idiot. And all Redux said was what we all know, their healthcare is better. Some people can't take that simple statement without making more out of it. Maybe I missed something else in a thread somewhere but based on the discussion the status update, I tend to agree with Redux on this one. Even though we all know deep in our hearts that Trump could never ever in a million years do or say one itsy bitsy thing that borders on correct. I mean that's just crazy talk.
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We'll see how tortured this comes out, but I think I've got an alternate explanation.

Examine the actual Trump quote:

Trump described the U.S. health system as failing, and added that "I shouldn't say this to a great gentleman and my friend from Australia because you have better health care than we do." He said the U.S. would have "great" health care very soon.
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Typical fluff from him. Be grandiose and make bold statement --> flattery towards those around you --> make bold claim. I'm over that.

But he doesn't get into specifics on much of anything and instead opts for vague but definitive proclamations. For instance, he says Australia has better HC than us, and that ours will be great soon.

I'm fairly sure that if you asked Trump, he probably doesn't even know that Australia has UHC. Much less understands the underlying mechanisms that allow that system to work, or those could allow UHC to succeed here, or those that make the current AHCA suck.

I think people react viscerally to stuff because we believe Trump's speaking from such a place of profound ignorance that he's merely a broken clock being right twice a day. In this case, he was throwing his typical histrionics at the wall in an attempt to flatter Turnbull and he happened to be correct.

I think we're all capable of saying something Trump does right. For instance, I can say Trump definitely, 100% knew that there was a disaffected working class here he could use to get elected. I think he pandered to them to do so and lied about his commitments to them, but I absolutely think he was smart enough to figure out they had been largely ignored and were there for the taking.

 
dudeguyy said:
El Diaco said:
The ridiculous thing is, all Redux said was that what Trump said was correct. Everybody agrees that Trump saying Australia's health care is better than our's is a true statement. But it is not well accepted to ever point out anything that Trump says or does might actually be right. So the story gets twisted to, well, Trump isn't heading us towards UHC so he's a dipsh#t. Australia has UHC so Trump is an idiot. And all Redux said was what we all know, their healthcare is better. Some people can't take that simple statement without making more out of it. Maybe I missed something else in a thread somewhere but based on the discussion the status update, I tend to agree with Redux on this one. Even though we all know deep in our hearts that Trump could never ever in a million years do or say one itsy bitsy thing that borders on correct. I mean that's just crazy talk.
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We'll see how tortured this comes out, but I think I've got an alternate explanation.

Examine the actual Trump quote:

Trump described the U.S. health system as failing, and added that "I shouldn't say this to a great gentleman and my friend from Australia because you have better health care than we do." He said the U.S. would have "great" health care very soon.[/size]
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Typical fluff from him. Be grandiose and make bold statement --> flattery towards those around you --> make bold claim. I'm over that.

But he doesn't get into specifics on much of anything and instead opts for vague but definitive proclamations. For instance, he says Australia has better HC than us, and that ours will be great soon.

I'm fairly sure that if you asked Trump, he probably doesn't even know that Australia has UHC. Much less understands the underlying mechanisms that allow that system to work, or those could allow UHC to succeed here, or those that make the current AHCA suck.

I think people react viscerally to stuff because we believe Trump's speaking from such a place of profound ignorance that he's merely a broken clock being right twice a day. In this case, he was throwing his typical histrionics at the wall in an attempt to flatter Turnbull and he happened to be correct.

I think we're all capable of saying something Trump does right. For instance, I can say Trump definitely, 100% knew that there was a disaffected working class here he could use to get elected. I think he pandered to them to do so and lied about his commitments to them, but I absolutely think he was smart enough to figure out they had been largely ignored and were there for the taking.
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The problem is, the status update that started this sh#storm did not include the whole quote. It only said "Trump just said Australia has better health care than US". And when people started jumping on that, Redux pointed out that it was a true statement.
There's half a dozen people hereabouts that seem to spend 247 ripping on Trump. Fine, he's earned it. But it should also be fine that others see the futility in joining the dog pile. Trump is an easy target and to some of us it is a waste of time to point out ad nauseum his faults. He's an idiot and he proves it every day. I find it amazing when he actually does say something true. I was not aware of the rest of his quote and I don't think Redux was either. If comments like this are going to be parsed, it is a de facto one way street that only has one possible conclusion. So, if the only acceptable position is to lambast Trump for anything and everything all the time, what is the purpose? I realize he's a dangerous idiot. I don't need to be reminded of that fact every waking hour. It's much more interesting to me that he actually said something that was correct, which the subject of the status update was. But it still got one of the 247 Trump bashers to crawl all over Redux for pointing out the obvious that what Trump said, this one rare time, was correct. Anything to do with the AHCA or UHC was beside the point. But since being a lone voice, pointing out that Trump was right is verboten, we got what we had here.

 
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That just isn't what happened, ED. Not at all. No one got on Redux's case in the status update. Frankly it was the other way around. zoogs explained to him why the quote was notable and Redux basically replied that what zoogs said doesn't matter because he's partisan. But it wasn't even a partisan topic. Trump said Australia's health care is better than ours and is trying to move ours further away from the way they do things. I don't recall anyone saying he was trying to make health care worse. The discussion was on government involvement.

The full quote wasn't necessary to see that the statement was notable.

 
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You Trump defenders are amazing. You grab on to the slenderest sliver of a conversation and claim THAT WAS RIGHT! when it's not remotely what the conversation is actually about.

This is why this country is going down the shitter. You'd rather argue minutiae of some irrelevant point than discuss actual problems.

 
knapplc said:
You Trump defenders are amazing. You grab on to the slenderest sliver of a conversation and claim THAT WAS RIGHT! when it's not remotely what the conversation is actually about.

This is why this country is going down the shitter. You'd rather argue minutiae of some irrelevant point than discuss actual problems.
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Oh go stick your "You Trump defenders" up your a$$ sideways.

The problem is not everyone wants to discuss "actual problems" or exactly what you want discussed all the time. Your status update was "Trump just said Australia has better healthcare than America. Australia has universal healthcare." These are both true statements. I don't give a f#ck if you think it's minutiae or irrelevant or not. Why did you post it if it was so useless? If you wanted to discuss the Republicans healthcare plan or Trump's position or UHC or Australia, there are a lot more direct ways to discuss those things.

"You Trump defenders"........holy f#cking hell. There aren't enough actual Trump defenders around for anyone to argue with so now you are classifying people who don't partake in the 247 bashing as Trump defenders. It's nothing more than bullsh#t. Show me where I've defended that POS once in the last few months and I'll show you how delusional you are.

 
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They are true statements, and Redux was right about that.

They are also irrelevant statements, other than the irony involved, as it pertains to America's healthcare situation.

 
knapplc said:
They are true statements, and Redux was right about that.

They are also irrelevant statements, other than the irony involved, as it pertains to America's healthcare situation.
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Agreed. So why was the result for Redux or myself to get pounced on and labeled as Trump defenders? If a person can't make the passing comment that it was a true statement and not want to engage in the discussion of how it was ironic for Trump to say such a thing.....

Most of us already realize he is an imbecile. These pages are over flowing with examples of what an idiot Trump is. Nobody in their right mind thinks this president or this congress are going to move towards UHC. IDK, it just seems redundant to me to point it out yet again.

 
knapplc said:
Make The DBHOF Great Again!

Provide a Safe Space for complaining!

LOL
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You're all kinds of ornery today ehhh
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