Feminism

[Mierin]

My daughter informs me that having joined the Gay-Straight Alliance at her high school, there was no shortage of enlightened California GenZ males willing to call her a dyke.

This week she met with her teacher about the film project she's directing. The teacher -- a woman -- spoke almost exclusively to her assistant director, a boy. 

The thing I've hated most about the last couple years is learning that things I really thought had changed, really haven't. 

I already posted about it once here but I was in Odyssey of the Mind. You don't by any means have to be a genius to be in it (in fact I think a school could send the whole school if they wanted, not sure) but for my school I think you had to get certain grades or a certain test score to be sent to it. Anyway, my point is, the coaches would know ahead of time that all of the kids on their team are pretty good at school.

I actually just asked my mom about this because there were 2 coaches and she was one of them. I was wondering why she didn't do anything about it.

So our project the year I was in it was to make a a little car that would follow a certain course and do certain things. It had to meet a bunch of requirements in order to get a good score. For the first meeting I brought a diagram for my idea to use to open a door when the car bumped into it (I still remember my idea). The male coach completely ignored what I brought and I never went to another meeting involving designing the car or building the car. I worked on costumes. As did the only other girl in the group. Only the boys in the group were invited to work on the car and the planning for how it would get through the course.

My mom said this guy was a bully to her and thought he knew how everything should be done and she couldn't get a word in edgewise even though she had been an OM coach several times before and it was the first time he'd ever done it. For example he wouldn't believe her that all of the teams would have skits and costumes and she had to absolutely insist that we do it because he would not hear it. He thought she was making it up.

 

[NM11046]

My daughter informs me that having joined the Gay-Straight Alliance at her high school, there was no shortage of enlightened California GenZ males willing to call her a dyke.

This week she met with her teacher about the film project she's directing. The teacher -- a woman -- spoke almost exclusively to her assistant director, a boy. 

The thing I've hated most about the last couple years is learning that things I really thought had changed, really haven't. 

First off - I think I would like your daughter, and you've raised a good one if she is so brave and bold.  Sadly it still takes those things every day to be a woman and push the "norms" to do things that are just routine.  You tell her to keep on keeping on.

Secondly, I'm in a line of work where I am surrounded mostly by male colleagues and mostly male (although it's changing gradually) customers.  And it is common to have a customer speak past me to a male colleague, to have a wait staff automatically hand a check to the male in the party.  Now though, in my late 40's I can stand up and say something, it used to be that I'd just play into the assumption and defer to the man.

 

[NM11046]

by definition, an anti feminist is a misogynist

I agree completely - but it's shocking to me that so many are ok with identifying as the first and are so vehemently against admitting that they are the later.

And Moiraine - are you one of those cute kids?

 

[Mierin]

I agree completely - but it's shocking to me that so many are ok with identifying as the first and are so vehemently against admitting that they are the later.

And Moiraine - are you one of those cute kids?

Which one is the cutest? I was that one.

(No, I just googled it).

 

[NM11046]

I figured you were calculating in that, and that you were the one totally covered up the elephant (?) and the pig (?)

 

[Ric Flair]

I think most people are supportive of feminism. There are some nutjobs in the movement that turn people off though. And parading in vagina hats didn’t do a lot to help feminism be taken seriously.

 

[JJ Husker]

I would define feminism as "an effort or movement socially and politically to empower women".

I view this very similar to environmentalism.  I support and claim to be an "environmentalist".  However, with both feminism and environmentalism, at times it's taken to extremes for personal power reasons and is contrary to actually furthering the mission of the movement.

I have a mom, wife, sister and two daughters that I dream of them living in a  world where women are respected and have ever opportunity that men do.  I support that.

Feminism means equal rights for women.

It became a bad word when people (I'm assuming they were sexist men) started applying it exclusively only to examples of women they thought were over the top/crazy. E.g. bra-burners and man-hating lesbians.

I don't know if any of that's true, but it became a bad word. It was a bad word when I was a teenager.

It means equal rights/treatment for women. Period.

If you want to use the phrase feminist movement and say that's different, fine. The word "feminist" should be something both men and women are proud to say they are. The word has been tainted and I think that was on purpose, and it was a long time ago.

These two posts basically sum up what I feel about it. I'm all for women being treated equal to men in all facets of life.  But, when I hear the words feminist or feminism something about that makes me default to thinking we are talking about over the top crackpots.

 

[zoogs]

That's an odd way to characterize these posts. 

It's really not. We don't talk this about things that we consider ours, that we're really excited about. What is apparent is not only the desire to signal support, it's the skepticism, the desire to draw lines that would safely exclude a lot of feminist advocates as part of that "further"-ness that is -- depending on who you ask -- anywhere from mildly dramatic to nutty and unhinged.  The wariness of the term comes through, and so does the reality that it is viewed as an "other people's thing".

How do you guys feel about Nebraska fandom? Well, I know a lot of Nebraska fans and I support that but really a lot of people take it too far. How do you feel about opposing racism? Yeah, I think everyone supports that and I'm happy for the advocates but the thing is there are people who just go nuts with it and that's a shame, and besides, we're all pretty equal already. It's (sorry -- to be clear, I'm not directing this at you, Guy Chamberlain) talking about feminism like I'd talk about conservatism -- as much as I respect a diversity in viewpoints, it's something I fundamentally and strongly disagree with it, and IMO the only relevant understanding of it today is all the crackpots that abound, which it (conservatism) has produced.

Feminism should belong to all of us, it should be our own thing, and why not? The lack of equality, in so many dimensions, is an affront to everybody. Let's all take it personally. 

 

[zoogs]

relatedly,

how does the GOP define feminism?


There was the "revere women" quote I was thinking of and had forgotten who'd said it until I looked it up: http://theweek.com/articles/654543/hey-men-stop-saying-champion-revere-women-just-give-equal-rights
 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

It's really not. We don't talk this about things that we consider ours, that we're really excited about. What is apparent is not only the desire to signal support, it's the skepticism, the desire to draw lines that would safely exclude a lot of feminist advocates as part of that "further"-ness that is -- depending on who you ask -- anywhere from mildly dramatic to nutty and unhinged.  The wariness of the term comes through, and so does the reality that it is viewed as an "other people's thing".

How do you guys feel about Nebraska fandom? Well, I know a lot of Nebraska fans and I support that but really a lot of people take it too far. How do you feel about opposing racism? Yeah, I think everyone supports that and I'm happy for the advocates but the thing is there are people who just go nuts with it and that's a shame, and besides, we're all pretty equal already. It's (sorry -- to be clear, I'm not directing this at you, Guy Chamberlain) talking about feminism like I'd talk about conservatism -- as much as I respect a diversity in viewpoints, it's something I fundamentally and strongly disagree with it, and IMO the only relevant understanding of it today is all the crackpots that abound, which it (conservatism) has produced.

Feminism should belong to all of us, it should be our own thing, and why not? The lack of equality, in so many dimensions, is an affront to everybody. Let's all take it personally. 

If you are talking about the feminism debate out there in the larger world, sure.

If you are drawing this from the posts in this thread, I think you're off-base.

There's a bit of irony trying to define feminism for everyone else.