Liberal ‘Tolerance’ a Complete Joke

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Ric Flair said:
Liberals will tolerate any opinion, so long as they agree with it. What a bunch of buffoons. They simply describe any opinion they disagree with as intolerant, and then silence it in the name of tolerance. 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/lets-talk-about-tolerance/

I was recently suspended from this board for two weeks for suggesting that transgenderism is a mental illlness. That is, the problem isn’t that the person’s chromosomes and anatomy are wrong, but that the brain is simply confused. So the solution isn’t hormones and surgery in a misguided attempt to make the body confirm to the mind, but in therapy to fix what is wrong with the mind. I was told that my opinion in this regard might be offensive to transgender people. So the solution was to silence me...on this purported discussion board...for offering an opinion that some might find offensive. 

I cited the opinions of innumerable psychiatrists and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM–5), published by the American Psychiatric Association. So my opinion is supported by experts in the field and their definitive guide to such matters. It didn’t matter. The mere possibility of hurt feelings trumps all. 

Some discussion board. 
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As someone who IS transgender, I really don't give a damn if you think I am "mentally ill."  Your opinion of me, being trans, and how I live my life, matters naught.

And citing DSM-5?  So what.  Transgender, as a research topic, isn't well known or explored.  Being trans is a topic that is just now being researched.  And those same "experts" who classify being trans as a mental illness once said the exact same thing about being gay.  That has since been changed/debunked.  And so I think maybe some of those "experts" saying being trans is a mental illness might also be religious bigots and/or idiots who insert their own personal opinion in lieu of real factual knowledge or insight.

 
I am a liberal and I wear that mantle proudly.

I'm pretty tolerant. I believe everybody should have a right to say whatever they want to say, short of direct threats of violence. Even hate speech. But what a lot of people don't get is that while the 1A allows them that right, it doesn't protect them from the consequences from how they use it.

I read the article from Ric's OP. It was a pretty long and tortured defense of the conservative dude recently fired from the Atlantic. For reference, he was fired because he tweeted in the past that women who got abortions or medical professionals that provide them should be lynched. 

But the author went to great lengths to explain how the conservative guy was the victim and the only truly tolerant one in the situation. That's right, the guy who wants to lynch women and doctors is the tolerant one. He even goes into a descriptive passage describing how the guy was born shortly before Roe v. Wade and therefore "narrowly escape abortion" and how "he’d be sharing office space with people who believe it would have been totally fine, completely morally acceptable, and possibly virtuous if a doctor had ripped him to pieces in his mother’s womb."

The whole thing reads like an outlet for the author's victimhood complex as a conservative. He attacks the weakest examples of progressivism to make his points. But nothing changed in the fundamental 1A equation: Williamson expressed a pretty strong, controversial view and he was canned because of it. The equation shouldn't change regardless of his political stripes. 

This is all to say: Free speech (and its ramifications) don't really care about your politics.

 
Clifford Franklin said:
This is all to say: Free speech (and its ramifications) don't really care about your politics.
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Exactly.  The Dixie Chicks come readily to mind.  During Bush 2's Presidency they made some pretty (at the time) far out statements and were subsequently admonished and punished publically for it.  They cried about suppression of free speech as American citizens, but that argument fell on deaf ears because, as you correctly state: 1) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.  And 2) The Dixie Chicks completely forgot who their fanbase was.

 
Making Chimichangas said:
Exactly.  The Dixie Chicks come readily to mind.  During Bush 2's Presidency they made some pretty (at the time) far out statements and were subsequently admonished and punished publically for it.  They cried about suppression of free speech as American citizens, but that argument fell on deaf ears because, as you correctly state: 1) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.  And 2) The Dixie Chicks completely forgot who their fanbase was.
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I think their biggest mistake is that they said these things in another country. Be mad at the president if you want, but complain about it in the U.S. to Americans. Not to foreigners in another country. I think a big part of the backlash they got was solely because they made the statements in England. It was kinda like... you can make fun of or beat your brother up, but nobody else better lay a hand on him. And you don't complain about him to outsiders.

I think today things are different though. Trump disparages American institutions on a daily basis for the whole world to see, so it changes things.

 
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knapplc said:
When you're so far right of center, anything to the left of you is "liberal."

There was literally a thread on this board less than two years ago where some of the more right-wing members wanted a section of the board of their very own where they could post without any "liberals" countering their opinions with facts.  There has never been such a thread from the self-avowed liberals. 

The problem with the ultra-right posters on this board is they want to fight fact with emotion. Or, in some extreme cases, fight fact with untruths.  Our good, honest, dyed-in-the-wool conservatives have no such problems because they allow facts to form their opinions.  BRB, TGH, JJ, and a couple others whose names are escaping me right now (sorry) are excellent at this.

Of course, like jsneb83 said, most people here are moderates, but they're conflated with liberals by some people who lack perspective. So it goes.
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I regularly post the facts and evidence that support my opinions. In the case I highlighted, I quoted numerous psychiatrists, mental health professionals, and the DSM, which is the definitive source on the topic of what is mental illness. It didn’t matter. If one of the mods doesn’t like a post, or is concerned it may hurt someone’s feelings, the fact it is true, factual, and supported by evidence is trumped by the fact that it may be hurtful. 

NEWSFLASH: The truth often hurts feelings. That doesn’t change the fact it’s the truth.

 
Clifford Franklin said:
I am a liberal and I wear that mantle proudly.

I'm pretty tolerant. I believe everybody should have a right to say whatever they want to say, short of direct threats of violence. Even hate speech. But what a lot of people don't get is that while the 1A allows them that right, it doesn't protect them from the consequences from how they use it.

I read the article from Ric's OP. It was a pretty long and tortured defense of the conservative dude recently fired from the Atlantic. For reference, he was fired because he tweeted in the past that women who got abortions or medical professionals that provide them should be lynched. 

But the author went to great lengths to explain how the conservative guy was the victim and the only truly tolerant one in the situation. That's right, the guy who wants to lynch women and doctors is the tolerant one. He even goes into a descriptive passage describing how the guy was born shortly before Roe v. Wade and therefore "narrowly escape abortion" and how "he’d be sharing office space with people who believe it would have been totally fine, completely morally acceptable, and possibly virtuous if a doctor had ripped him to pieces in his mother’s womb."

The whole thing reads like an outlet for the author's victimhood complex as a conservative. He attacks the weakest examples of progressivism to make his points. But nothing changed in the fundamental 1A equation: Williamson expressed a pretty strong, controversial view and he was canned because of it. The equation shouldn't change regardless of his political stripes. 

This is all to say: Free speech (and its ramifications) don't really care about your politics.
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The author was making a point. He never threatened violence. He took his argument to its logical conclusion. Liberals couldn’t handle that, so he had to be fired.

 
Making Chimichangas said:
As someone who IS transgender, I really don't give a damn if you think I am "mentally ill."  Your opinion of me, being trans, and how I live my life, matters naught.

And citing DSM-5?  So what.  Transgender, as a research topic, isn't well known or explored.  Being trans is a topic that is just now being researched.  And those same "experts" who classify being trans as a mental illness once said the exact same thing about being gay.  That has since been changed/debunked.  And so I think maybe some of those "experts" saying being trans is a mental illness might also be religious bigots and/or idiots who insert their own personal opinion in lieu of real factual knowledge or insight.
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I think some of those recently changing their minds on whether transgenderism is a form of mental illness are doing so to be politically correct, avoid criticism, and prevent hurt feelings.

I’m in no way suggesting that a mental illness is a shameful thing. That would be like blaming someone for having a physical illness. As you rightly note, many people, perhaps most people, have some form of at least mild mental illness. Depression, anxiety, and the like are ridiculously common. 

My point is to suggest that hormone therapy, surgery, etc. are misguided attempts to fix a problem that is really mental in its nature. 

 
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