Racism - It's a real thing.

Nebfanatic said:
Why shouldn't we be teaching that? It is a huge part of everyones life. Oh yea lets let people educate themselves so they think smashing genitals with no protection is all their sexual energy is good for. Sexual energy is the lifeblood of genius. Why shouldn't we be teaching children to use their energy to achieve a higher frequency of thought rather than let them think physical expression is the only way to use their energy. I take it you haven't read the incredible book Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. Your not wrong in that we do a decent job at teaching things that can be measured by test scores and compared to the rest of the world, but what I am suggesting is maybe that isn't the best method to prepare our children for success going forward.
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And, I'm not saying reaching the highest level of thought isn't very important.  We need to strive for that every chance we can.

However, I'm saying that's a cultural and family issue more than a school issue.  My youngest son just graduated from HS.  We have had many conversations about why he was successful in getting good grades, getting into the school he wants, getting the scholarship he wants...etc.  You know what he says his friends do every night?  They go home, sit in their rooms for 4-5 hours LITERALLY....and play Fortnight.  Really?  What the hell kind of parent even allows their kid to do that?  I've told my son that I would be so friggen pissed off if he did that and he totally agrees with me.

THESE are the types of things that hold kids back from taking advantage of opportunities that are already available.  

What if those kids were putting that much time into learning how to play the piano or painting a picture or creative photography....etc.?  My son is really into hunting and fishing.  So, he spends a lot of time creatively thinking about fishing and new ways to get better at it.  No, it's not 

 
Nebfanatic said:
And to bring this back around to racism, @BigRedBuster says its the parents responsibility to teach their kids alot of these things, and while I don't entirely disagree with that, its difficult when the government takes away the head of these families for generations. From slavery to mass incarceration, the US has always found ways to drive wedges between families in the African American community, then we blame the parents for not teaching their kids what they need to know. 
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That is a problem and why I said earlier that this problem needs to be approached from both sides.

 
BigRedBuster said:
That is a problem and why I said earlier that this problem needs to be approached from both sides.
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Don't disagree with that at all. Parents bear some responsibility, but the fact is the parents aren't always there so maybe we should rethink how we teach children.

Taxes should be taught. Sex ed should be taught, and just imagine if we taught kids to approach their sexual urges as energy that can be used towards a goal rather than just a sexual urge to be expressed physically.

I don't think we should abandon curriculum, but maybe adjust how we teach it to allow kids to think in more positive, long term, big picture state of mind. Teach kids to approach what they do as a craft. Its not huge, but a shift in attitude towards how we teach can shift how the kids recieve the info.

Home life is important to being excited for school as well no doubt, but if they don't learn at home and they don't learn at school, they won't teach their children and the cycle continues.

We need to find a way to educate more people on more than just math, science and literature. 

 
Nebfanatic said:
Don't disagree with that at all. Parents bear some responsibility, but the fact is the parents aren't always there so maybe we should rethink how we teach children.

Taxes should be taught. Sex ed should be taught, and just imagine if we taught kids to approach their sexual urges as energy that can be used towards a goal rather than just a sexual urge to be expressed physically.

I don't think we should abandon curriculum, but maybe adjust how we teach it to allow kids to think in more positive, long term, big picture state of mind. Teach kids to approach what they do as a craft. Its not huge, but a shift in attitude towards how we teach can shift how the kids recieve the info.

Home life is important to being excited for school as well no doubt, but if they don't learn at home and they don't learn at school, they won't teach their children and the cycle continues.

We need to find a way to educate more people on more than just math, science and literature. 
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I think you are greatly understating the opportunities kids have in our current school systems for this that many/most students aren't taking advantage of.

I had read an article years ago about how even though Chinese students were coming out of school with these amazing test scores, businesses were not willing to hire them for positions where creative problem solving was required....and they were opting for American kids.

Here's an article on this subject and the problem with the Chinese schools.

LINK

I've said all along that there can always be improvement.  However, opportunities are there if kids are motivated to take advantage of them.  Most kids don't.

PS....OK...I'm not going to argue about having a Tax class.  If you say that would save America...great.  I'm all for it.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
However, I'm saying that's a cultural and family issue more than a school issue.  My youngest son just graduated from HS.  We have had many conversations about why he was successful in getting good grades, getting into the school he wants, getting the scholarship he wants...etc.  You know what he says his friends do every night?  They go home, sit in their rooms for 4-5 hours LITERALLY....and play Fortnight.  Really?  
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Think of the point of overlap there to be a redundancy backup where the school either gives refreshers and reaffirmation of topics already covered well in the home by parents, or gives new and unknown insight into life for the kids without any parents, with bad parents, with a single parent who's working 4 jobs, etc.

 
And...for the record, I believe we rely way too much on test scores as a judge of how good a school is doing (or student).  I'm not for getting rid of them, because learning things like science, math and language is important for a kid to be successful.  But, it should just be a part of what is looked at.

However, as an example, I have a real problem with how much colleges use test scores to judge a student for admittance or scholarships.

My kids have never been great at taking standardized tests.  My oldest got a high of 22 on her ACT.  She is headed to dental school after getting a 4.0 in undergrad.  My second had a high of 25 on the ACT, went to Nebraska and received NOTHING in scholarships at UNL with above a 4.0 in HS and top in her class.  She still has a 4.0 going into her junior year and is being highly recommended by her professors for grad school.

Both of these kids were passed up by many schools top programs because their ACT scores weren't good enough.  BUT....they excelled in other areas that have made them successful.

How many minority kids are held back simply because they didn't get a high enough test score to get a scholarship to further their education?

 
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Chinese schools adopt an American approach




HEFEI, China -- Some of China's children are now being taught in a style that's more typically American.

Beijing elementary school students are back in the classroom. And whether they know it or not, their education is about to filled with grueling exams that will determine their future. 

"Memorizing a lot of information doesn't necessarily lead to creativity or problem solving skills," says Boston College Professor Mike Barnett. 

The Chinese government has recruited Barnett to help.

"They're seeing a lot of what their students produce is kind of imitation in nature, as opposed to innovation in nature," he says. 

Barnett doesn't use textbooks. Instead, he teaches students to think and reason using real-life problems. His methods are used in 500 schools across the U.S.
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BigRedBuster said:
And...for the record, I believe we rely way too much on test scores as a judge of how good a school is doing (or student).  I'm not for getting rid of them, because learning things like science, math and language is important for a kid to be successful.  But, it should just be a part of what is looked at.

However, as an example, I have a real problem with how much colleges use test scores to judge a student for admittance or scholarships.

My kids have never been great at taking standardized tests.  My oldest got a high of 22 on her ACT.  She is headed to dental school after getting a 4.0 in undergrad.  My second had a high of 25 on the ACT, went to Nebraska and received NOTHING in scholarships at UNL with above a 4.0 in HS and top in her class.  She still has a 4.0 going into her junior year and is being highly recommended by her professors for grad school.

Both of these kids were passed up by many schools top programs because their ACT scores weren't good enough.  BUT....they excelled in other areas that have made them successful.

How many minority kids are held back simply because they didn't get a high enough test score to get a scholarship to further their education?
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This is kinda what I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting we don't teach math, science, ect. But we need to shift the way we teach. We put to much emphasis on test scores and teaching to the test. I think we should look at teaching in more practical ways and using testing as a gauge of what needs to be taught rather than a goal to achieve a perfect score.

 
BigRedBuster said:
Chinese schools adopt an American approach
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Just because we are further along than China doesn't mean we can't be better. Obviously Chinas methods weren't terribly successful. A rigid logical approach doesn't lend itself to originality. The more childlike and novel you make the learning experience, the more impactful it will be. 

Its not are we better than China, its are we adequetly preparing our children for life. 

 
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BRB, your kid must do pretty good on tests to score well enough on the DAT (Is that what it is) for Dental School!  That test has beaten down so many people!

 
teachercd said:
BRB, your kid must do pretty good on tests to score well enough on the DAT (Is that what it is) for Dental School!  That test has beaten down so many people!
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Because of other things than her ACT, she was able to get into the RHOP program.  She then went to undergrad and ended up being the only one in her program to graduate with a 4.0.  If she did that, she was guaranteed a spot in Dental School with a good score on the DAT.  She didn't need to go into it and do fantastic on it.  She did decent.  But, if she was't in the RHOP program, she would have been sweating getting in.

In other words, relatively speaking, she did better on the DAT than the ACT.  But, she still didn't do fantastic on it.

 
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