ConVICK

[huskerinkc]

Ok...I am a member of Huskerboard because I've been a Husker fan for all of my 38 years. I read and comment on lots of topics about the good 'ol BIG RED. I just feel that someone needs to start a topic on the whole Vick thing. I know he has nothing to do with Husker football, but then again...this site is all about football and us football fans. I'm interested in hearing some comments on this topic. Here's my beef...I was watching the game tonight and couldn't help but get *issed off listening to former coaches and commentators saying how they feel bad for Vick because he is such a great guy and role model. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Dogs are not only living creatures but man's best friend. Who said it is ok to drown and hang them for losing a fight??? Taking a life is a serious crime. I don't care if it's a dog or O.J.

 

[huskerinkc]

Ok...I am a member of Huskerboard because I've been a Husker fan for all of my 38 years. I read and comment on lots of topics about the good 'ol BIG RED. I just feel that someone needs to start a topic on the whole Vick thing. I know he has nothing to do with Husker football, but then again...this site is all about football and us football fans. I'm interested in hearing some comments on this topic. Here's my beef...I was watching the game tonight and couldn't help but get *issed off listening to former coaches and commentators saying how they feel bad for Vick because he is such a great guy and role model. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Dogs are not only living creatures but man's best friend. Who said it is ok to drown and hang them for losing a fight??? Taking a life is a serious crime. I don't care if it's a dog or O.J.

I meant to say "I don't care if it's Vick of O.J."

 

[rawhide]

moved

 

[junior4949]

Since you brought it up, I guess I'll weigh in my opinion. First of all, I believe in Texas an inmate on death row can still choose death by hanging. So, if it's okay to hang people it's okay to hang dogs. Same with electrocution.

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

IMO, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. You more than likely have a young prosecutor who's getting some wood because he can put down a celebrity, one of the icons of the NFL. From your post, I'm assuming you must be a vegetarian? You must not wear any leather products because you do know that a life has to be lost for you to eat meat or wear leather products.

What do you deem as more harmful: killing a dog or taking him out in the middle of nowhere and turning a domesticated animal loose in the wild? The latter is more harmful because death is iminent by cruel and inhumane ways. I guess by your thought process all veterinarians who euthanize dogs should go to jail because they take the lives of dogs, cats, cattle, etc. all the time. What do you think happens to underperforming horses in Belgium? They kill them and eat them. Hell, indians on the reservation kill and eat dogs. The whole Vick thing is stupid, plain and simple.

 

[AR Husker Fan]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

 

[admo]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

Perfectly said AR! Amen brotha, I sooo concur!

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

Good answer AR and I'm just going to say that comment above rubbed me the wrong way??? :dunno

 

[huskerinkc]

Since you brought it up, I guess I'll weigh in my opinion. First of all, I believe in Texas an inmate on death row can still choose death by hanging. So, if it's okay to hang people it's okay to hang dogs. Same with electrocution.

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

IMO, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. You more than likely have a young prosecutor who's getting some wood because he can put down a celebrity, one of the icons of the NFL. From your post, I'm assuming you must be a vegetarian? You must not wear any leather products because you do know that a life has to be lost for you to eat meat or wear leather products.

What do you deem as more harmful: killing a dog or taking him out in the middle of nowhere and turning a domesticated animal loose in the wild? The latter is more harmful because death is iminent by cruel and inhumane ways. I guess by your thought process all veterinarians who euthanize dogs should go to jail because they take the lives of dogs, cats, cattle, etc. all the time. What do you think happens to underperforming horses in Belgium? They kill them and eat them. Hell, indians on the reservation kill and eat dogs. The whole Vick thing is stupid, plain and simple.

Junior...Either you've been eating retard sandwiches again or were severly beaten as a child. Wait...I know...you were attacked by a dog once when you were a child when you were shooting at it with a bb gun?! Seriously...I may be a dog lover and felt the need to vent about Vick but at least I made an attempt to make some good points. What in the world are you jabbering about? Why did you feel to take shots at me? You must be in dire need of a girlfriend or something.

What I see as "plain and simple" is this...no one (not even your beloved Vick) has the right to cruelly kill a dog or any other animal. If you think it's ok...you need some help, man! Now go back to your glass of goat blood and Belgium horse sandwich.

 

[junior4949]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

Is this why many insurance companies will not give you homeowners insurance if you have a pitt bull? I have no trouble at all getting home owners insurance with my black labs. They do ask on applications, and if you own a pitbull or 4 other breeds of dogs you will be denied!!!!!!!!!!!! So, apparently they are more violent than other breeds of dogs and have displayed as much with their behavior.

Cattle are bred and fed to eat. They have no choice and are killed and slaughtered for human consumption. Their hides are used to make the leather shoes and belts that you wear. It's so basic. If he'd have been running a **** fighting ring, would everyone be so pissed? Almost every animal out there has no choice in the life it leads if it's in captivity. There is no free will for animals. Hogs die for their meat. Sheep die for their meat. Cattle die for their meat. Do you really think if they had free will they'd choose to die and be eaten? Horses are ridden. If they had free will, do you really think they'd choose to be ridden?

I was simply pointing out that other than drowning, the execution methods he used are the same we as human beings use to execute human beings. Male dogs fight. It's bred into them to fight for territory. I've never once trained my two male labs to fight, but you know what they occasionally do when there's a female around in heat. When my neighbor brings his male over, he fights with mine. It happens, and it is natural. In the wild, male animals do fight to the death. It's nature!

 

[junior4949]

Since you brought it up, I guess I'll weigh in my opinion. First of all, I believe in Texas an inmate on death row can still choose death by hanging. So, if it's okay to hang people it's okay to hang dogs. Same with electrocution.

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

IMO, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. You more than likely have a young prosecutor who's getting some wood because he can put down a celebrity, one of the icons of the NFL. From your post, I'm assuming you must be a vegetarian? You must not wear any leather products because you do know that a life has to be lost for you to eat meat or wear leather products.

What do you deem as more harmful: killing a dog or taking him out in the middle of nowhere and turning a domesticated animal loose in the wild? The latter is more harmful because death is iminent by cruel and inhumane ways. I guess by your thought process all veterinarians who euthanize dogs should go to jail because they take the lives of dogs, cats, cattle, etc. all the time. What do you think happens to underperforming horses in Belgium? They kill them and eat them. Hell, indians on the reservation kill and eat dogs. The whole Vick thing is stupid, plain and simple.

Junior...Either you've been eating retard sandwiches again or were severly beaten as a child. Wait...I know...you were attacked by a dog once when you were a child when you were shooting at it with a bb gun?! Seriously...I may be a dog lover and felt the need to vent about Vick but at least I made an attempt to make some good points. What in the world are you jabbering about? Why did you feel to take shots at me? You must be in dire need of a girlfriend or something.

What I see as "plain and simple" is this...no one (not even your beloved Vick) has the right to cruelly kill a dog or any other animal. If you think it's ok...you need some help, man! Now go back to your glass of goat blood and Belgium horse sandwich.

"Taking a life is a serious crime"

This is your quote. From that, I assume you don't eat meat. I assume you don't wear any leather products because a life was LOST for the meat you eat and the leather you wear. A serious crime? Give me a break. I have dogs. I hunt with my dogs. I take several lives per year in the form of pheasants, doves, ducks, geese, and an occasional deer during season. Hell, mice are living creatures. You don't kill them? How about **** roaches, mosquitos, flies? You all speak of free will. What free will did those PEOPLE who were killed in war have when they were drafted into the armed forces?

"Cruelly killing a dog or other animal"

From the news I saw, there were three methods of destroying the dogs. They were electrocution, drowning, and hanging. Electrocution and hanging are methods used to kill death row inmates, so apparently the human population doesn't see this as cruel and inhumane. I agree that drowning is probably cruel and inhumane.

I don't love Vick. I've always felt he is overhyped. However, I do see an injustice due primarily to his celebrity status. He had some dog fights. He killed some dogs. My dad has killed dogs before because they killed chickens. I'm glad he's now passed on because I would hate to see him face jail time for executing a dog!

 

[huskerinkc]

Since you brought it up, I guess I'll weigh in my opinion. First of all, I believe in Texas an inmate on death row can still choose death by hanging. So, if it's okay to hang people it's okay to hang dogs. Same with electrocution.

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

IMO, this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. You more than likely have a young prosecutor who's getting some wood because he can put down a celebrity, one of the icons of the NFL. From your post, I'm assuming you must be a vegetarian? You must not wear any leather products because you do know that a life has to be lost for you to eat meat or wear leather products.

What do you deem as more harmful: killing a dog or taking him out in the middle of nowhere and turning a domesticated animal loose in the wild? The latter is more harmful because death is iminent by cruel and inhumane ways. I guess by your thought process all veterinarians who euthanize dogs should go to jail because they take the lives of dogs, cats, cattle, etc. all the time. What do you think happens to underperforming horses in Belgium? They kill them and eat them. Hell, indians on the reservation kill and eat dogs. The whole Vick thing is stupid, plain and simple.

Junior...Either you've been eating retard sandwiches again or were severly beaten as a child. Wait...I know...you were attacked by a dog once when you were a child when you were shooting at it with a bb gun?! Seriously...I may be a dog lover and felt the need to vent about Vick but at least I made an attempt to make some good points. What in the world are you jabbering about? Why did you feel to take shots at me? You must be in dire need of a girlfriend or something.

What I see as "plain and simple" is this...no one (not even your beloved Vick) has the right to cruelly kill a dog or any other animal. If you think it's ok...you need some help, man! Now go back to your glass of goat blood and Belgium horse sandwich.

"Taking a life is a serious crime"

This is your quote. From that, I assume you don't eat meat. I assume you don't wear any leather products because a life was LOST for the meat you eat and the leather you wear. A serious crime? Give me a break. I have dogs. I hunt with my dogs. I take several lives per year in the form of pheasants, doves, ducks, geese, and an occasional deer during season. Hell, mice are living creatures. You don't kill them? How about **** roaches, mosquitos, flies? You all speak of free will. What free will did those PEOPLE who were killed in war have when they were drafted into the armed forces?

"Cruelly killing a dog or other animal"

From the news I saw, there were three methods of destroying the dogs. They were electrocution, drowning, and hanging. Electrocution and hanging are methods used to kill death row inmates, so apparently the human population doesn't see this as cruel and inhumane. I agree that drowning is probably cruel and inhumane.

I don't love Vick. I've always felt he is overhyped. However, I do see an injustice due primarily to his celebrity status. He had some dog fights. He killed some dogs. My dad has killed dogs before because they killed chickens. I'm glad he's now passed on because I would hate to see him face jail time for executing a dog!

Dude...the dog fighting thing is plain and simple, it's wrong! "People" who take dogs and starve them, beat them, etc. to make them mean in order to win a dog fight is wrong. I can't believe you don't understand that. I've even seen tv shows that inform these idiots steal neighborhood dogs, duct tape their mouths shut and thrown into a ring as "sparring partners" for their fighting dogs. I can't believe you are trying make sense of this "sport". Since you are so very interested...as a matter of fact, I do own leather products and grill steaks all the time like every other normal husker fan. I just don't agree with dog fighting as you do...apparently.

How can you relate executing criminals with dog fighting?! Some jag off that rapes and kills someone deserves pain and punishment. Dog fighters turn normal dogs into evil creatures for their own enjoyment. BIG DIFFERENCE bud.

I love this site for the sake of husker fans. Therefore, I'm not going to continue trying to make a point with you as it appears this is a waste of time. For everyone except junior here....GBR!! I'll be watching and enjoying the Huskers this season as they play a real sport. Junior here will apparently be in his back yard training his pit bulls for the next contest instead.

 

[Nicole]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

Well said AR...

But junior...ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? You are going to relate a human who is on death row for an appropriate reason to an innocent animal? Animals are much like babies and the mentally disable, they don't know what is right or wrong unless tought to them. Pitbulls have been given a very bad reputation because of people like Vick, they are the dog of choice in fighting because they look the meanest. Judgement on these animals are merely because of reputation, if you get a pitbull as a puppy, cause in case you don't know, they are a puppy at one time, if you treat them like you would your labs, they would be great dogs, protective of their family, "mans best friend", good with kids and people, and other animals. Like I said in another post about this, you can take a Lion and if treated well, it would be loveable like a kitten, and also same goes for bears. There are some bears that have been adopted when very young, and they were treated well, and are very harmless because of how they were taught. The same will go for a pitbull, again, they're judged over reputation.

Animals like cows are meat, people need meat. Many cows are breed for that reason, pitbulls are not supposed to be breed to fight, it's unfortunate that they are in places.

To relate humans to animals is so completely rediculous. People have their own mind, they choose what and what not to do for themselves. Boxing is a profession, gambling is a bad hobby. As a person with free will they CHOOSE what they want to do, animals do not have free will, what they are taught to do, they do. An innocent animal much like babies, unless you hate babies as well, they do not understand, they do not understand why they are being starved, why they are fighting, why they are being beaten. And then for them to be hanged, drowned, or electrecuted for SPORT is inhumane. Along with the people who don't see a problem with it.

And what's most shocking about you're remarks is that you say you have labs. I have a lab/retriever mix and she is wonderful, labs are great dogs. But you say you don't have a problem with this? Do you make your dogs fight? Would you enjoy watching you're dogs fight until the death? Have your friends gamble on them?

 

[junior4949]

***SNIP***

Since he killed underperforming dogs, I'm assuming the dog fights were not to the death. We gamble and watch boxers beat the tar out of one another, so what's the big deal with dog fighting? Hell, every year it seems someone is killed while playing football. I don't see the big deal with dog fighting at all. Pitbulls really are only good for one thing and that is fighting. Seriously, what's the big deal with dogfighting when people do the same thing?

***SNIP***

The difference is that people have free will and choose to engage in fights. Dogs that are trained to do so have no choice - they are beaten, starved, deprived of water, anything to make them fight. They fight or they suffer and die. That's so basic that I would have thought that it would be obvious.

And pitt bulls are no different from other breeds - they are no more vicious than other breeds unless trained to be.

And as for underperforming, if we apply the same logic to Vick, he would be facing a death sentence based on his performance in the NFL.

Well said AR...

But junior...ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? You are going to relate a human who is on death row for an appropriate reason to an innocent animal? Animals are much like babies and the mentally disable, they don't know what is right or wrong unless tought to them. Pitbulls have been given a very bad reputation because of people like Vick, they are the dog of choice in fighting because they look the meanest. Judgement on these animals are merely because of reputation, if you get a pitbull as a puppy, cause in case you don't know, they are a puppy at one time, if you treat them like you would your labs, they would be great dogs, protective of their family, "mans best friend", good with kids and people, and other animals. Like I said in another post about this, you can take a Lion and if treated well, it would be loveable like a kitten, and also same goes for bears. There are some bears that have been adopted when very young, and they were treated well, and are very harmless because of how they were taught. The same will go for a pitbull, again, they're judged over reputation.

Animals like cows are meat, people need meat. Many cows are breed for that reason, pitbulls are not supposed to be breed to fight, it's unfortunate that they are in places.

To relate humans to animals is so completely rediculous. People have their own mind, they choose what and what not to do for themselves. Boxing is a profession, gambling is a bad hobby. As a person with free will they CHOOSE what they want to do, animals do not have free will, what they are taught to do, they do. An innocent animal much like babies, unless you hate babies as well, they do not understand, they do not understand why they are being starved, why they are fighting, why they are being beaten. And then for them to be hanged, drowned, or electrecuted for SPORT is inhumane. Along with the people who don't see a problem with it.

And what's most shocking about you're remarks is that you say you have labs. I have a lab/retriever mix and she is wonderful, labs are great dogs. But you say you don't have a problem with this? Do you make your dogs fight? Would you enjoy watching you're dogs fight until the death? Have your friends gamble on them?

In order for the underperforming dogs to be executed, this would have to mean that the dogs were not fighting to the death so your point there is invalid. My two male dogs do fight. In fact it cost me 86 bucks to have one of them stitched up recently. I've never trained them to fight, and I really don't like having to take them to the vet and pay to have them stitched up. This brings me back to my original point that dogs fight naturally!

Pit bulls as I have stated are aggressive dogs. This is why owners who have them either pay a lot more or cannot get homeowners insurance. I know because I used to sell the stuff. There were at that time 5 breeds of dogs that were virtually impossible to get homeowners insurance if owned by the house trying to get insurance. Pit bulls were number 1 on the list. Insurance is based on experience ratings. Obviously, the experience rating on pit bulls is that they are aggressive and therefore insurance companies are not willing to take the risk insuring homes who own them due to past EXPERIENCE with the breed. Your point about them being the same as all other breeds is invalid.

Out in the wild where they have no human control, coyotes and wolves are the closest relative to domesticated dogs. In the wild, I have seen two adult male coyotes fight to the point where one is dead. Last winter, we had the worst winter in 17 years. I saw several carcasses of coyotes that either starved to death or froze to death. It brings me back to nature. Dogs fight. It's natural. They fight until either one is dead or until one runs off. It happens all the time in an environment for coyotes and wolves that have no human interaction. Your point about animals not fighting unless being trained to is invalid.

Who says cattle have to bred for meat? Indians breed and raise dogs for meat. I know 4-H and FFA kids who are as close to their market steers as you are your dogs. In some cases they take these animals from a very young age and break them to lead, groom them, bathe them, and show them. Then the next year they feed these animals to market weight and groom them, bathe them, etc. all over again. However, at the end of the season they all know these animals that they've spent so much time with will be slaughtered and consumed. You claim we breed cattle for this. So, what's the difference between breeding cattle to kill and breeding dogs to fight? Some guys breed dogs for hunting. Some guys breed dogs for racing. Some breed dogs for chasing cattle. And, some guys breed dogs for fighting. What do you think happens to underperfoming racing dogs? They destroy them. What do you think happens to underperfomring hunting dogs? They destroy them. Btw, destroy means kill them.

It's funny you bring up lions. Probably the performer that was mamed and nearly killed a few years back by his "pet" lion would disagree with you. A friend of mine used to raise bobcats. When the kittens were little, they were an amazing pet. When they got to be a year old and were used for breeding purposes, they'd tear your leg off. It's just like riding a stud horse. Most of the time, he's fine. When he gets into the breeding season, most of them can't be ridden and do turn mean. It's called animal instinct. You can take two male toy poodles and put them around a female in "heat". They'll tear one another apart without ever being taught how to fight. It's nature!

"People have their own mind, they choose what and what not to do for themselves." Are you kidding me? Tell that to those who lost loved ones in war that were drafted. They didn't have a choice as to whether or not they went over into war. They were drafted, and some of those drafted were killed. They had no choice. Again, your point there is invalid.

I'm not condoning what he did, but let's keep it all in perspective. He wasn't out molesting children like some priests and others who are still out in the general population. He wasn't out selling meth to children. He wasn't out stealing. I just don't think the crime he committed warrants prison.