Trump: More Popular than Ever

deedsker said:
But just because you haven't taken the time to make sure it isn't a duck, doesn't mean it isn't a duck.
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Yeeeaaaah....?

Not sure what your point here is. To be clear (and sticking with the analogy) I'm not saying that Trump isn't a duck. I'm saying that some of his supporters are not ducks, most assuredly not all of them are. Just as surely some of them are.

 
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Comfortably Numb said:
So, you agree "in theory" but choose to go in another direction anyway?

Sometimes....sometimes silence can mean nothing more than a person has not properly considered or evaluated a situation. Sometimes it can be evidence of just not being too sharp or of not being being exposed to reliable information or facts. There are a lot of "sometimes" that can come in to play before I would ever blanketly accuse others of being racist (or lazy blacks, or criminal Hispanics, or whatever). You can call it a false equivalency if you wish but it's all the same in my book.

For the most part, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...it's a duck. I just refuse to call it a duck until I see enough evidence that it is in fact a duck. But you guys do you. It's JMO.
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I don't think all Republicans are racist, so I don't agree with that post. I think we were talking about Trump supporters though, and there is a difference there. We just don't know how big of a difference it is.

So, on Trump supporters, there are a couple questions I've asked myself and I don't really know the answers to them.

In order to think Trump isn't racist, you have to try really hard to convince yourself. In order to do that, you need to be very informed/mis-informed. You need to know the things he's done/said and then convince yourself they're not racist. My first question is, can you think Trump is not racist and be non-racist yourself? That means you think the racist actions/statements he's made aren't racist. I feel like there are a lot of people who are subconsciously racist and think they're not racist at all.

Then there are the Trump supporters who know Trump is racist but they think the good he is doing outweighs it. Can you be okay with racism and not be racist? I can see people thinking abortion is more important, but why don't those people put pressure on Trump to be better?

Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I can see why someone would think all Trump supporters are racist by default of supporting him.

 
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Moiraine said:
I don't think all Republicans are racist, so I don't agree with that post. I think we were talking about Trump supporters though, and there is a difference there. We just don't know how big of a difference it is.

So, on Trump supporters, there are a couple questions I've asked myself and I don't really know the answers to them.

In order to think Trump isn't racist, you have to try really hard to convince yourself. In order to do that, you need to be very informed/mis-informed. You need to know the things he's done/said and then convince yourself they're not racist. My first question is, can you think Trump is not racist and be non-racist yourself? That means you think the racist actions/statements he's made aren't racist. I feel like there are a lot of people who are subconsciously racist and think they're not racist at all.

Then there are the Trump supporters who know Trump is racist but they think the good he is doing outweighs it. Can you be okay with racism and not be racist?

Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I can see why someone would think all Trump supporters are racist by default of supporting him.
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Those are all good questions to ponder. I can't and won't try to defend those who feel he isn't racist because I happen to think he is. I'd rather let them paint themselves into that corner themselves. But I just can't go along with saying they are all racists. I know Trump supporters that definitely are not racist. I'm not sure exactly how they can ignore or avoid the evidence but I do know in many cases it does not make the same as him and it doesn't necessarily make them okay with racism.

Some of this is just me, a pet peeve of mine if you will. I happen to feel it is very hypocritical to boast how I am not "that way" and in the same breath accuse others who they don't know of being that way.

 
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Comfortably Numb said:
I won't deny that "some" have failed to exonerate themselves from these types of accusations. You're right in that regard. I just have a problem when someone states that "all" have the same motivation for their support of Trump. That just isn't true.
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Are you a "MAGA" person?  If not, none of what I wrote in that post applies to you.

Did you read it, or just react?

 
knapplc said:
Are you a "MAGA" person?  If not, none of what I wrote in that post applies to you.

Did you read it, or just react?
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I both read it and reacted. And no worries, I was not concerned about you or anyone thinking I thought it applied to me personally. It doesn't.  I'm not a MAGA person.  I just happen to feel what you wrote does not necessarily apply to all MAGA or Trump supporters. It likely does apply to many of them but most definitely not all.

 
Comfortably Numb said:
I both read it and reacted. And no worries, I was not concerned about you or anyone thinking I thought it applied to me personally. It doesn't.  I'm not a MAGA person.  I just happen to feel what you wrote does not necessarily apply to all MAGA or Trump supporters. It likely does apply to many of them but most definitely not all.
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And, again, it was important to speak out against that.  But not against the things that Trump is saying, or doing.

Priorities are important. 

 
Comfortably Numb said:
I both read it and reacted. And no worries, I was not concerned about you or anyone thinking I thought it applied to me personally. It doesn't.  I'm not a MAGA person.  I just happen to feel what you wrote does not necessarily apply to all MAGA or Trump supporters. It likely does apply to many of them but most definitely not all.
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I think the greater point is that whether implicit, or explicit support of the current Republican party (Trump's party), Trump (a racist), and MAGA (implicitly racist by association) is support or racism.

Also, I really appreciate you contributing CN. It's nice to have a more perspectives.

 
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Moiraine said:
I don't think all Republicans are racist, so I don't agree with that post. I think we were talking about Trump supporters though, and there is a difference there. We just don't know how big of a difference it is.

So, on Trump supporters, there are a couple questions I've asked myself and I don't really know the answers to them.

In order to think Trump isn't racist, you have to try really hard to convince yourself. In order to do that, you need to be very informed/mis-informed. You need to know the things he's done/said and then convince yourself they're not racist. My first question is, can you think Trump is not racist and be non-racist yourself? That means you think the racist actions/statements he's made aren't racist. I feel like there are a lot of people who are subconsciously racist and think they're not racist at all.

Then there are the Trump supporters who know Trump is racist but they think the good he is doing outweighs it. Can you be okay with racism and not be racist? I can see people thinking abortion is more important, but why don't those people put pressure on Trump to be better?

Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I can see why someone would think all Trump supporters are racist by default of supporting him.
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This is a very good post. I was going to post something similar, but you saved me some work.

I think the point is that there are many different buckets of Trump supporters, just like any other president. I personally feel like the outright racists & alt-right/Nazi crowd is just a vocal minority.

At the same time, the GOP itself has been coddling actual racists & bigots with dogwhistles and implicit messaging for a LONG time before Trump ever came along. It's also possible to be disturbed by how comfortable the Republican base has become with racism in their midst. Wink wink, nod nod, "I would never be racist myself (but if they help us beat the Democrats...)" type of stuff.

Likewise, it's a bit disturbing how the non-racist Trump supporter factions tolerate it anyway from the racist factions. Again, it boils down to an implicit understanding that they're needed to win. There's no way Trump supporters don't realize there are some proud racists amongst them; Trump has traded in the dogwhistle for a full-blown foghorn he's been blaring loudly since day 1. So one is either A) a racist B) OK with racists because their votes count too C) a very quiet minority that supports Trump & despises the racists or D) the least self-aware person every to be completely oblivious to all of this. 

It's just weird to watch people tolerate something I find so absolutely vile as racism for the sake of political success for their team. 
 

The day we choose to look the other way & abide moral failings to win elections is the day we lose a bit of our humanity. 

 
ZRod said:
I think the greater point is that whether implicit, or explicit support of the current Republican party (Trump's party), Trump (a racist), and MAGA (implicitly racist by association) is racist. 
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I've explained my point of view and am extremely happy with exactly everything I've said about it. I'll be a little disappointed if some others don't provide clarification or walk back their stance a little. But nobody should be concerned about my possible disappointment. I just see it a little bit differently.

 
Comfortably Numb said:
I've explained my point of view and am extremely happy with exactly everything I've said about it. I'll be a little disappointed if some others don't provide clarification or walk back their stance a little. But nobody should be concerned about my possible disappointment. I just see it a little bit differently.
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I get where you're coming from, and Knapp's position is one I have a hard time embracing up to this point. At this stage in the game though, and knowing what we know, failure to condemn is necessarily the act to condone.

 
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knapplc said:
These protestations ring hollow and biased when the OP has repeatedly created inflammatory threads with nary a peep in protest. 
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Apparently your definition of “inflammatory” is anything that you disagree with, or which runs counter to the ridiculous level of groupthink on this board. You and your ilk post 100 negative threads about Trump, calling him a racist, Nazi, evil, stupid, clueless idiot. I post a couple  of threads praising him, and you practically wet yourself in outrage over how I’m posting bait threads and inflammatory topics.

Grow up snowflake.

 
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