The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

Ric Flair said:
I’ve met Kamala Harris and she’s not a bright woman. Her whole career is built on an relationship she had with Willie Brown, who has been the one pushing her career ever since. 

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders would be destroyed in a debate with the likes of Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Warren and Samders have mastered their talking points, but know shockingly little about basic economics. That fact would become painfully obvious were they paired with any competent debater. I’m no fan of Cruz, but he’s a very skilled debater.
Click to expand...
Do you have anything to offer besides unsupported opinion? (FYI, Bernie and Cruz had a debate on healthcare and Bernie arguably got the better of Cruz. Cruz is just a talking-point machine and isn't a good debater.)

 
RedDenver said:
That's a whole lot of opinions without any evidence. I've numbered them to respond:

1) Socialist ideas have been around a long time and not only have gained traction but have also been around in America for a long time. Goods and services that we own together as a society like the military, police, firefighters, roads, airports, seaports, canals, dams, sea walls, etc. etc. have been around for the entirety of US history. Economically, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, etc. have been around since capitalism collapsed in the US in the 1930's and was saved by socialist ideas like bank bailouts and federal jobs programs in addition to the programs already mentioned. And as I showed in my previous post, socialist ideas are again gaining traction and popularity.

2) The healthcare system already costs trillions, so it's expected Medicare-for-All should cost roughly the same, which it does. Most analyses show it should cost less. And it doesn't lead to worse outcomes, as shown by the fact that among the 31 other OECD nations that have single-payer, the US ranks about in the middle for outcomes. In other words, we only have average outcomes right now, so a single-payer system should be roughly the same.

3) Whether the tax cuts will actually help the economy is yet to be seen. The trends all look roughly the same as they were before the cuts. After a few years we'll be able to look back and the data and determine what the short-term effects were and it'll take a decade or more before we'll know the long-term effects. However, since 82% of the cuts went to the top 1%, there's no way those cuts address basic problems like income-inequality or poverty rates.

4) The data actually shows the opposite of your claim. For an extensive list of research papers that show that minimum wage raises do not lead to fewer jobs see this article. There was one study that found Seattle's minimum wage increase hurt employment, but that study's assumptions and findings have been challenged by other studies.

5) What? Bernie's popularity has been increasing since he announced his primary campaign back in 2015.

6) Venezuela is one example. Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Germany, Britain, and countless other examples of various levels of socialism that works. Also, Venezuela isn't a very good example as their entire economy is based on their oil exports, so any disruption of that one resource would tank their economy regardless of whether it's capitalist or socialist. And a socialist government that does bad planning is always going to fail.

7) Interestingly enough, Margaret Thatcher also said, “The National Health Service is safe with us. The principle of adequate healthcare should be provided for all regardless of ability to pay must be the function of any arrangements for financing the NHS. We stand by that.”
Click to expand...


1) Socializing costs that are both constitutionally required and aren’t individual in nature makes sense. We all need military protection, roads, etc. With the exception of Medicaid, the other social welfare programs you listed are funded by people paying into them. Socialism, especially as many liberals propose, goes well beyond that.

2) That’s not how health care works. Medicare is already overloaded and delivers poor results. The reimbursement rates suck. Expanding it will lead to a costly program where people get insurance cards that decreasing numbers of providers will actually accept. 

3) I don’t particularly care about income inequality. If you cut taxes, the people who actually pay the taxes get most of the benefit. Crazy how that works. Everyone benefits from an expanding economy. Unemployment is down, anyone who wants a job can find one, wages are up, and things look great. #MAGA

4) The evidence clearly shows there are less minimum wage jobs in Seattle. More and more evidence is mounting that companies are speeding up the process of automating those jobs. This is simple economics. If the costs of that labor imcrease, employers will be more motivated to do without it or find ways to replace it.

5) Hillary’s popularity crested right before she announced she was running for President. How did that work out for her again?

6) Socialism only works when the economy has enough capitalism to generate enough wealth that can be stolen to fund the socialist boondoggles. When it truly crashes and burns is when it gets too greedy and kills the golden goose. 

7) I think Thatcher would have rethought that statement if she’d lived to see what NHS became. 

 
RedDenver said:
Do you have anything to offer besides unsupported opinion? (FYI, Bernie and Cruz had a debate on healthcare and Bernie arguably got the better of Cruz. Cruz is just a talking-point machine and isn't a good debater.)
Click to expand...


What you’re offering is likewise unsupported opinion. Whether one or the other won the debate is a simple matter of opinion. I thought Cruz handily won that debate.

 
RedDenver said:
Do you have anything to offer besides unsupported opinion? (FYI, Bernie and Cruz had a debate on healthcare and Bernie arguably got the better of Cruz. Cruz is just a talking-point machine and isn't a good debater.)
Click to expand...


You should ask him to PM you his "insider" information on Kamala Harris.  It's a hoot!

And the "I've met Kamala Harris" wasn't part of this info. That's a new wrinkle to the story.

 
TheSker said:
It does.

Clinton had his own mitts on deregulation in the financial sector.  Sometimes the effects aren't felt for several years.

It's no wonder politics frustrates so many Americans.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the effects of economic decisions typically aren't felt for years, so it's wildly premature to credit Donald Trump for doing anything, and not unduly pessimistic to anticipate a major market correction that may already have been in motion, and may also be exacerbated by Trump's unpredictability, the one adjectives the markets hate most.

Also, blaming Bill Clinton for the credit crisis is like blaming David Kneval for Nebraska's blowout loss to Ohio State. 

 
knapplc said:
You should ask him to PM you his "insider" information on Kamala Harris.  It's a hoot!

And the "I've met Kamala Harris" wasn't part of this info. That's a new wrinkle to the story.
Click to expand...


Yeah, meeting her in passing and working closely with people who know and worked with her personally for years and hearing their stories provides no basis for forming an opinion about her. 

:lol:

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Indeed, the effects of economic decisions typically aren't felt for years, so it's wildly premature to credit Donald Trump for doing anything, and not unduly pessimistic to anticipate a major market correction that may already have been in motion, and may also be exacerbated by Trump's unpredictability, the one adjectives the markets hate most.

Also, blaming Bill Clinton for the credit crisis is like blaming David Kneval for Nebraska's blowout loss to Ohio State. 
Click to expand...


That’s largely untrue. Companies make decisions based not just on what the economic and regulatory environment looks like now, but what it will look like in the future. Tax and regulatory cuts stimulate econmic growth and are good for business. Team Obama didn’t understand basic economics and their boneheadedness was crippling the economy and stunting economic growth. So Trump’s early moss to cut taxes and ease regulation gave businesses all the encouragement they needed to start growing and hiring. Trying to give Obama retroactive credit for growth he said was impossible is hilarious.

 
knapplc said:
This is a good reminder that everyone has an opinion.

But not everyone has a qualified opinion. 

Huge difference.
Click to expand...


It’s also a good reminder that everyone talks about economics.

But some of us studied it. teach it, and know what we’re talking about.

Huge difference.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Indeed, the effects of economic decisions typically aren't felt for years, so it's wildly premature to credit Donald Trump for doing anything, and not unduly pessimistic to anticipate a major market correction that may already have been in motion, and may also be exacerbated by Trump's unpredictability, the one adjectives the markets hate most.

Also, blaming Bill Clinton for the credit crisis is like blaming David Kneval for Nebraska's blowout loss to Ohio State. 
Click to expand...
Using sarcasm to deflect is perfect......

And predictable.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ric Flair said:
It’s also a good reminder that everyone talks about economics.

But some of us studied it. teach it, and know what we’re talking about.

Huge difference.
Click to expand...
$ trillion deficits are the only way to balance the budget?  costly military parades are budget wise?   tariffs are not actually taxes on the consumers?   trickle down economics are going to work THIS TIME?  

 
Back
Top