The Republican Utopia

[knapplc]

Shifting from one logical fallacy to another (from "argument from ignorance" - where you try to shift the burden of proof to "relevancy fallacy" + an ad-hominem attack- where you cite with schumer's statements and voting record as indefensible ) doesn't prove your point, on the contrary, it proves how weak the arguments you make are because you aren't capable of backing up things with sources that have any sort of factual basis or evidence to back them up.

You made the claim and are unable to defend it. That link is just a collection of quotes by Schumer. Feel free to cite the ones that support your claim. Of course, knapplc is pointing out Schumer's voting record and not just out-of-context quotes, so you'll want to find better than that.

Critical thinking can be taught. Any good teacher will demand it from his or her students. 

It's so transparent.

Sad thing is, so many people fall for it. Good on you for following errors through the inaccuracies to the deflections.

 

[Ric Flair]

You made the claim and are unable to defend it. That link is just a collection of quotes by Schumer. Feel free to cite the ones that support your claim. Of course, knapplc is pointing out Schumer's voting record and not just out-of-context quotes, so you'll want to find better than that.

It’s a collection of quotes from Schumer on the topic of immigration, which when read together show where he stands on the issue. This really isn’t as complicated as you’re trying to make it. 



There’s simply no better way to know where someone stands on an issue than to read his statements on different nuances of it, particularly over a period of several years. Your discomfort in doing that comes from knowing I’m correct that Schumer and many Democrats, despite talking a good game about immigration enforcement, won’t actually do anything about it. Why would they? They see illegal immigrants as likely Democratic voters. 

 

[Ric Flair]

Critical thinking can be taught. Any good teacher will demand it from his or her students. 

That’s why I’m here...to demand it from you and knapplc. School’s in session.

:thumbs

 

[Big Red 40]

I don’t remember bringing up that  aspect of the argument I may have been responding to flairs post though. 

I agree with the things you stated in this post . 

You were the one who brought up this part of the demographic.

I get frustrated in these conversations because, I believe, the right thinks this group is way bigger than it is. The left then, totally dismisses it like it’s nothing. 

Even though that group might be smaller than the right will admit, I don’t respect the people in it.  

My contention is that this problem has many issues that need addressed. 

 

[commando]

welfare queen

 

[RedDenver]

It’s a collection of quotes from Schumer on the topic of immigration, which when read together show where he stands on the issue. This really isn’t as complicated as you’re trying to make it. 



There’s simply no better way to know where someone stands on an issue than to read his statements on different nuances of it, particularly over a period of several years. Your discomfort in doing that comes from knowing I’m correct that Schumer and many Democrats, despite talking a good game about immigration enforcement, won’t actually do anything about it. Why would they? They see illegal immigrants as likely Democratic voters. 

Another low-quality deflection. Pointing at a giant collection of information and saying, "It's in there somewhere," is weak and generally means you already know you've lost the argument because you can't find the supporting evidence. You've yet to cite a single piece of evidence to support your claims about Schumer. And FYI, there is a better way to know where a politician stands on an issue that's even more reliable than what they've said: how they've voted. Schumer's votes are public record.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

So other than thinking rich people are miserable, greedy, miserly, horrible hypocrites, you’re perfectly cool with them. 

Got it.  :lol:

Why shouldn’t the people who made the money get to keep it? What entitles less productive members of society to the fruits of the labors of others? 

Do you realize your hypocrisy?  Literally all rich people do is benefit and take for their own, the fruits of other people's labor.  But in your selfish, I'm a rich white republican view, everybody owes you.  You're entitled to wealth and the fruits of everyone else's labor and F the poor people who made you rich.  This is why....I won't finish that thought. 

 

[Ric Flair]

Another low-quality deflection. Pointing at a giant collection of information and saying, "It's in there somewhere," is weak and generally means you already know you've lost the argument because you can't find the supporting evidence. You've yet to cite a single piece of evidence to support your claims about Schumer. And FYI, there is a better way to know where a politician stands on an issue that's even more reliable than what they've said: how they've voted. Schumer's votes are public record.

As I have pointed out...repeatedly now...Democrats generally and Schumer specifically do not want the immigration problem to be solved. They need the issue to keep their base riled for elections. If comprehensive immigration reform were passed, certainly in the way I described earlier, the issue would largely disappear. If that happened, it would have a considerable impact on Demoratic turnout.

Schumer and other Democrats will continue to propose legislation that they know won’t pass and stage votes that don’t matter. It’s all for show. So the best way to know what he thinks is to track his statements over time. Schumer’s statements are trending against immigration enforcement, as are those of the rest of the party.

 

[Making Chimichangas]

That's what I said... Their jurisdiction stops 100 miles from the border.

Then that's not how I read it...apologies.  Sometimes my brain likes to leave without saying where it is going.

 

[Ric Flair]

Do you realize your hypocrisy?  Literally all rich people do is benefit and take for their own, the fruits of other people's labor.  But in your selfish, I'm a rich white republican view, everybody owes you.  You're entitled to wealth and the fruits of everyone else's labor and F the poor people who made you rich.  This is why....I won't finish that thought. 

That’s a remarkably backward and ignorant way of viewing the economic system. The vast majority of us have jobs to go to because some rich person, or group of them, had an idea, started a business, worked hard, risked his (or their) money, and built a successful business. Starting and operating a business involves a huge commitment of time, energy, and resources, and involves tremendous risk.

I’m not claiming anyone owes me anything. I worked hard...still do...and make decent money. That money is mine. I worked hard for it and earned it. I make more than some people and less than others. That’s because based on my skills, education, experience, etc., my labor is worth a certain amount. That’s simple economics. 

If you’re unhappy with your lot in life, it’s up to you to change it. But it’s a waste of time to blame others for it or to envy people who seem to have more. That’s just a waste of a life.

 

[Danny Bateman]

As I have pointed out...repeatedly now...Democrats Republicans generally and Schumer McConnell specifically do not want the immigration problem Obama's policies to be solved repealed. They need the issue to keep their base riled for elections. If comprehensive immigration reform were passed the ACA were repealed, certainly in the way I described earlier, the issue would largely disappear. If that happened, it would have a considerable impact on Demoratic Republican turnout.

Schumer and other Democrats McConnell and the Republicans will continue to propose legislation that they know won’t pass and stage votes that don’t matter. It’s all for show. So the best way to know what he thinks is to track his statements over time. Schumer’s McConnell's statements are trending against immigration enforcement quality healthcare for people, as are those of the rest of the party.

FIFY. This was pretty much 2010 through 2016.

This isn't a one-sided issue. Both parties are guilty of false promises and playing games instead of solving controversial problems when they have the ability to do so on their own. 

Also, didn't Schumer and Pelosi claim to have a deal on the table for wall funding + increased immigration enforcement in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients? IIRC it never happened because Trump balked when he came under fire from his right flank. 

But again, you haven't even pointed out where Schumer's specific comments are "trending against enforcement." It seems like you're just out here tackling strawmen.

 

[Big Red 40]

That’s a remarkably backward and ignorant way of viewing the economic system. The vast majority of us have jobs to go to because some rich person, or group of them, had an idea, started a business, worked hard, risked his (or their) money, and built a successful business. Starting and operating a business involves a huge commitment of time, energy, and resources, and involves tremendous risk.

I’m not claiming anyone owes me anything. I worked hard...still do...and make decent money. That money is mine. I worked hard for it and earned it. I make more than some people and less than others. That’s because based on my skills, education, experience, etc., my labor is worth a certain amount. That’s simple economics. 

If you’re unhappy with your lot in life, it’s up to you to change it. But it’s a waste of time to blame others for it or to envy people who seem to have more. That’s just a waste of a life.

Agreed . and for all of that they are rewarded with the lions share of the profits. Nobody is arguing against that. The problem is not one single one of them built their empire 100% on their own, and they owe the people who helped them get there a much bigger piece of the pie than they are currently providing. There was a time when that was true and America really was great for everyone. Now its great for a select few ,and just meh for millions of others.   

 

[Ric Flair]

Agreed . and for all of that they are rewarded with the lions share of the profits. Nobody is arguing against that. The problem is not one single one of them built their empire 100% on their own, and they owe the people who helped them get there a much bigger piece of the pie than they are currently providing. There was a time when that was true and America really was great for everyone. Now its great for a select few ,and just meh for millions of others.   

I disagree. I don’t think anyone is OWED anything. If someone doesn’t like his job, he should find another one. If someone is displeased by her employment prospects, she should try a different field or finish/go back to school.

 

[Ric Flair]

FIFY. This was pretty much 2010 through 2016.

This isn't a one-sided issue. Both parties are guilty of false promises and playing games instead of solving controversial problems when they have the ability to do so on their own. 

Also, didn't Schumer and Pelosi claim to have a deal on the table for wall funding + increased immigration enforcement in exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients? IIRC it never happened because Trump balked when he came under fire from his right flank. 

But again, you haven't even pointed out where Schumer's specific comments are "trending against enforcement." It seems like you're just out here tackling strawmen.

I agree that both parties engage in doublespeak and gameplaying to keep their bases riled. No doubt.

Schumer’s comments go from being very stringly in favor of strict border enforcement years ago to being, at best, tepid in their support for any enforcement now. That’s entirely cinsistent with ither key Democratic figures iver the same time frame. Have you heard what those like Hillary said about illegal immigration even a few years ago? She makes Trump look like a moderate on the issue. The Democratic Party has swing wildly to the left on the issue of immigration.

 

[Danny Bateman]

I agree that both parties engage in doublespeak and gameplaying to keep their bases riled. No doubt.

Schumer’s comments go from being very stringly in favor of strict border enforcement years ago to being, at best, tepid in their support for any enforcement now. That’s entirely cinsistent with ither key Democratic figures iver the same time frame. Have you heard what those like Hillary said about illegal immigration even a few years ago? She makes Trump look like a moderate on the issue. The Democratic Party has swing wildly to the left on the issue of immigration.

A few years ago we didn't have a president coldly and callously urging the deportation of millions of law-abiding, productive members of society. We used to have leaders who said these were the type of immigrants we should want here and that they'd be welcome with open arms here because they made our society better.

The change in circumstance necessarily required a shift toward humanity.