The Courts under Trump - Mega Thread
- Thread starter TGHusker
- Start date
You are correct that it is miles apart. However, if he truly didn't do this, holding no Ill will is probably the best I could do in his situation.
Danny Bateman
Donor
Thanks. A lot of truth in here as well. It's true that people can be doing worse now than they used to, regardless of skin color. I truly think when Reagan took over and we got away from decades of New Deal-era bipartisan consensus seeking in Congress was when things started going south. That was when the GOP sowed the seeds of their current economic doctrine and partisanship started ramping up. Tip O'Neill and Reagan got along famously, but that's when we really lurched rightward on policy matters - Clinton's triangulation and Gingrich's Republican Revolution in the 90s cemented it. And you're right about what these policies are doing to people, some of whom are fiercely conservative.
One thing I think we all learned today - we continue to be horribly fractured as a country, and it's reflected in our politics. What happened today and whatever happens next isn't going to help that - it's probably going to inflame it.
Agreed. Perhaps I'm wishing for something that's unrealistic.
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Danny Bateman
Donor
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Danny Bateman
Donor
Kavanaugh lied. AGAIN.
Ask yourself honestly about the implications of confirming a man who cannot stop lying under oath about all manner of things, from meaningless to critical. If he lies about the little things, he'll lie about the big ones too. This tells me no one should trust a lick of the way he's portrayed himself throughout this process or the positions he claims to hold.
This is a man who would lie about anything to fulfill his personal ambitions of being on the Supreme Court. That's exactly why he doesn't belong there.
Ask yourself honestly about the implications of confirming a man who cannot stop lying under oath about all manner of things, from meaningless to critical. If he lies about the little things, he'll lie about the big ones too. This tells me no one should trust a lick of the way he's portrayed himself throughout this process or the positions he claims to hold.
This is a man who would lie about anything to fulfill his personal ambitions of being on the Supreme Court. That's exactly why he doesn't belong there.
Mierin
Donor
Again... there's no reason for Kavanaugh to have claimed not to drink, which is what he has said in this past week, and also that he was a virgin for a long time after high school. People have shown they don't care about that s#!t. Although to be honest I wouldn't be shocked if he actually was a virgin during all of this. But it seems to me he's lying about it because he doesn't know which parts he should lie about. Urban Meyer has the same problem
. I would say Trump does too but Trump just lies about everything.
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Ulty
New member
Been thinking about this matter quite a bit last night and this morning, and there is quite a bit to unpack.
Before touching on the veracity of the sexual assault allegations, there are two very troubling tings that stand out to me:
1. The horrible victim shaming and ignorance being displayed by Republicans and right-wing media and Trump-supporting social media users. The accuser has nothing to gain from this. Many, many victims do not tell their stories for years if at all. And these matters should be handled with a certain amount of tact and empathy, whether they are true or false, but it is being met with all the grace of a en enraged elephant. It has become very telling how so many people on the right view these sorts of situations, and it is ugly.
2. The combative way in which Kavanaugh answered questions, dodged some questions altogether, and presented flimsy evidence or non-sequiturs would not fly in most courtrooms. I've seen many county judges put a quick stop to that sort of behavior, and this guy is brazenly showing his a$$ in this way to try to get a seat on the fricking Supreme Court. If he was a rational, unbiased judge, he would not tolerate this sort of nonsense, less of all exhibit it himself. That alone shows he is unfit for the seat, without even analyzing the actual facts of the case or his judicial record.
Beyond these things, the fact that he was not willing to say yes or no as to whether there should be an actual investigation into the allegations is very troubling, and his blatantly partisan statements were very troubling. Even if the accusations are false, the way he presented himself was ridiculous. Not everyone would be able to maintain their composure in this kind of setting, but for someone on the brink of becoming one of the most powerful people in the country, for life, it is reasonable to expect a different temperament.
Most sexual misconduct cases amount to a he-said/she-said story, and absent other credible evidence, these cases often come down to credibility. Ford was very credible as an accuser, in terms of how and when her claims came to light, what she remembers, the psychological impact, and motive. Kavanaugh on the other hand inappropriately fired back at his questioners about their own drinking habits, refused to answer that a full investigation might be appropriate, and said quite a few things that are demonstrably false (such as being able to legally drink at the time), or at least things that a reasonable person would find untrue (i.e. his explanations about Devil's Triangle and boofing or whatever the hell). Kavanaugh did plenty to damage his own credibility. If I was investigating this as a neutral party, I would be looking for more evidence on both sides, but Ford comes across as far, far more credible than Kavanaugh.
Kavanaugh isn't being tried in criminal court here. The evidence does not need to be beyond a reasonable doubt. This is to determine his fitness for a SCOTUS seat, and I think a reasonable person will have seen quite enough to give the thumbs down. Unfortunately, the Senate is not full of reasonable people.
TLDR version: Kavanaugh is an a$$.
Before touching on the veracity of the sexual assault allegations, there are two very troubling tings that stand out to me:
1. The horrible victim shaming and ignorance being displayed by Republicans and right-wing media and Trump-supporting social media users. The accuser has nothing to gain from this. Many, many victims do not tell their stories for years if at all. And these matters should be handled with a certain amount of tact and empathy, whether they are true or false, but it is being met with all the grace of a en enraged elephant. It has become very telling how so many people on the right view these sorts of situations, and it is ugly.
2. The combative way in which Kavanaugh answered questions, dodged some questions altogether, and presented flimsy evidence or non-sequiturs would not fly in most courtrooms. I've seen many county judges put a quick stop to that sort of behavior, and this guy is brazenly showing his a$$ in this way to try to get a seat on the fricking Supreme Court. If he was a rational, unbiased judge, he would not tolerate this sort of nonsense, less of all exhibit it himself. That alone shows he is unfit for the seat, without even analyzing the actual facts of the case or his judicial record.
Beyond these things, the fact that he was not willing to say yes or no as to whether there should be an actual investigation into the allegations is very troubling, and his blatantly partisan statements were very troubling. Even if the accusations are false, the way he presented himself was ridiculous. Not everyone would be able to maintain their composure in this kind of setting, but for someone on the brink of becoming one of the most powerful people in the country, for life, it is reasonable to expect a different temperament.
Most sexual misconduct cases amount to a he-said/she-said story, and absent other credible evidence, these cases often come down to credibility. Ford was very credible as an accuser, in terms of how and when her claims came to light, what she remembers, the psychological impact, and motive. Kavanaugh on the other hand inappropriately fired back at his questioners about their own drinking habits, refused to answer that a full investigation might be appropriate, and said quite a few things that are demonstrably false (such as being able to legally drink at the time), or at least things that a reasonable person would find untrue (i.e. his explanations about Devil's Triangle and boofing or whatever the hell). Kavanaugh did plenty to damage his own credibility. If I was investigating this as a neutral party, I would be looking for more evidence on both sides, but Ford comes across as far, far more credible than Kavanaugh.
Kavanaugh isn't being tried in criminal court here. The evidence does not need to be beyond a reasonable doubt. This is to determine his fitness for a SCOTUS seat, and I think a reasonable person will have seen quite enough to give the thumbs down. Unfortunately, the Senate is not full of reasonable people.
TLDR version: Kavanaugh is an a$$.
Ulty
New member
Also, I've been hearing talk on the radio and such about minimizing the deep dive into his yearbook. Something along the lines of: "Can you imagine if you were asked questions about your high school yearbook in every job interview?" Yeah, it seems ridiculous at first blush, but we aren't simply looking at normal teenage behaviors to deny this guy a job. We've all done things in high school and college that we would probably do differently as older adults. Juvenile crap that I wouldn't want my boss or the world to know about. People grow up and they change. But we aren't talking about mostly innocent, juvenile antics here. We are looking at someone's credibility and his ability to respond to these questions. Minimizing this as "really, we're looking at yearbooks now? ha ha!" does a disservice to what we are really trying to learn.
If I was sitting in a Senate confirmation hearing and forced to testify about high school nonsense, I might need to come clean about curfew violations, minor vandalism, underage drinking, and yes even inappropriate flirting and conduct with girls that could be construed today as sexual harassment. We've all done things that we aren't proud of, but hopefully we have learned from them and become better people. Maybe Kavanaugh learned form his youthful shenanigans and became a better man as well. But his inability to give honest answers casts dark shadows over his credibility and his personality, and then again, sexual assault is a far cry from most of the juvenile hijinks most of us were involved in. Even more reason to be honest about yourself. If the allegations are false, that is.
If I was sitting in a Senate confirmation hearing and forced to testify about high school nonsense, I might need to come clean about curfew violations, minor vandalism, underage drinking, and yes even inappropriate flirting and conduct with girls that could be construed today as sexual harassment. We've all done things that we aren't proud of, but hopefully we have learned from them and become better people. Maybe Kavanaugh learned form his youthful shenanigans and became a better man as well. But his inability to give honest answers casts dark shadows over his credibility and his personality, and then again, sexual assault is a far cry from most of the juvenile hijinks most of us were involved in. Even more reason to be honest about yourself. If the allegations are false, that is.
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Danny Bateman
Donor
I'm sure I'll get flak for this, but it's important to say.
Flake confirms he will vote to confirm Kavanaugh. His protestations about returning to a politics of sensibility and decency are rarely backed up by action, and that will be how he is remembered. Someone who hemmed and hawed and always fell in line.
This video captured live on CNN is incredible. It shows that even Senators have to live with the consequences of their decisions. The shame on Flake's face is palpable. He shrinks away from her and isn't able to look her in the eye. I'm glad the man is still able to feel some semblance of shame. I hope he lives with that shame for a long time.
Edit: NSFW, added for emphasis.
Flake confirms he will vote to confirm Kavanaugh. His protestations about returning to a politics of sensibility and decency are rarely backed up by action, and that will be how he is remembered. Someone who hemmed and hawed and always fell in line.
This video captured live on CNN is incredible. It shows that even Senators have to live with the consequences of their decisions. The shame on Flake's face is palpable. He shrinks away from her and isn't able to look her in the eye. I'm glad the man is still able to feel some semblance of shame. I hope he lives with that shame for a long time.
Edit: NSFW, added for emphasis.
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ZRod
Active member
This is huge to me! I said here previously that I really didn't have a problem with his nomination. I've done a complete 180 after yesterday. He is an arrogant entitled snob with a vindictive juvenile attitude towards those "in his way". He is wholly unfit to be on the highest bench in the land given his antics and lack of respect for anyone not on his team yesterday. The guy is a complete fraud, fitting of the finest Trump stooges. What a joke of a Judge.
schriznoeder
New member
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ZRod
Active member
How hard is it for him to look her in the eyes, say "I'm sorry for what happened to you. All women should feel empowered enough that they can come forward and confront their accusers through the legal system. That you, and many others, don't feel that way is a very troubling issue in our time."
Danny Bateman
Donor
Again, I'll borrow from 538 yesterday, because they were an awesome resource. Women don't feel empowered because the legal system is failing them. It is extremely troubling, but neither Flake nor any of his colleagues seem to care to do anything to reform it.
Someone put it much better than I could ever hope to yesterday:
"Throughout my adult life, the promise of the Republican Party is 'You don't have to care about others.' Today, they proved it."
Whistlebritches
New member
Four thoughts about what I heard yesterday.
1. I didn't really believe his explanation about 'boofing' but kids are weird and come up with inside jokes all the time.
2. I didn't at all believe his devil's triangle explanation. I really wish someone would have asked for a couple rules of the supposed drinking game.
3. There's no way in hell that guy hasn't drank to excess in his college years.
4. His attacks on Democrats in his prepared statement really bothered me when it's supposed to be an apolitical position.
Kavanaugh probably lied under oath yesterday and it's not going to matter because the R's are playing to win. A couple Senators and Reps will lose their seats this fall but that's just collateral damage for locking up a SC Justice for the next 30 years.
1. I didn't really believe his explanation about 'boofing' but kids are weird and come up with inside jokes all the time.
2. I didn't at all believe his devil's triangle explanation. I really wish someone would have asked for a couple rules of the supposed drinking game.
3. There's no way in hell that guy hasn't drank to excess in his college years.
4. His attacks on Democrats in his prepared statement really bothered me when it's supposed to be an apolitical position.
Kavanaugh probably lied under oath yesterday and it's not going to matter because the R's are playing to win. A couple Senators and Reps will lose their seats this fall but that's just collateral damage for locking up a SC Justice for the next 30 years.