Will our democracy survive Trump?

Will our Democracy survive Trump?

  • Short term - yes

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Long term - yes

    Votes: 16 64.0%

  • Short term - no

    Votes: 2 8.0%

  • Long term - no

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • Total voters
    25
It's not Trump that will be the undoing of American Democracy.  He's a symptom of a much larger problem as I see it and American Democracy won't survive it unless we make it 100% a priority to elect people pledged to end it, hell it already feels a little sarcastic to call it a Democracy.  The reason he gets away with unimaginable policies and lying and just in general being a lazy idiot is simple.  Money, not his money, but the money being pumped into the parties and PACs by wealthy extremists and special interests.  Trump helped whip people on the right into a frenzy, but that was happening before plenty by their actors spewing propaganda on their networks, but its PAC money and RNC money that tells these politicians (that are sans backbone until they decide not to run again) "hey, you better fall in line or we'll find and fund your primary opponents that will."

That's the root of the problems on pretty much any level policy, from partisanship, to nobody able to stand up to their leadership.  It's turned being an elected representative into a hostage to their leadership or they get the "how are you going to keep your glorified telemarketing job when we'll bury you in attack ads next cycle if you don't snap to."

 
commando said:
yews...but they have no idea how many will actually be returned.
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So then at the very least they would have a max number of total votes including day of and requested absentee and overseas ballots. So there should be no way that they end up with a number higher than that, and if they did it would be incredibly suspicious, right? Like do they report a total max on election day or something? This is what I was told from a conservative friend on fb:

"

let me explain it simply. If 100 ballots are requested, when I report my total at the end of election day my total will be 100 ballots. My vote tally counted 10 days later may only be 90 even thought I still reported 100 on Election Day. It’s when I report 100 additional votes after Election Day making my total new total 200 that makes this shady. 
Those additional 100 votes were never accounted for and there’s no proof that they were cast before Election Day. 

This is not hard concept to understand or to follow. It is election fraud on some level.
This is why there are rules that are in place."

 
Landlord said:
So then at the very least they would have a max number of total votes including day of and requested absentee and overseas ballots. So there should be no way that they end up with a number higher than that, and if they did it would be incredibly suspicious, right? Like do they report a total max on election day or something? This is what I was told from a conservative friend on fb:

"

let me explain it simply. If 100 ballots are requested, when I report my total at the end of election day my total will be 100 ballots. My vote tally counted 10 days later may only be 90 even thought I still reported 100 on Election Day. It’s when I report 100 additional votes after Election Day making my total new total 200 that makes this shady. 
Those additional 100 votes were never accounted for and there’s no proof that they were cast before Election Day. 

This is not hard concept to understand or to follow. It is election fraud on some level.
This is why there are rules that are in place."
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the numbers they announce on election day mean practically nothing.   there are still a lot of provisional and absentee ballots to counts...and msot of the time not all of the ballots are counted on election day.   everything they announce on tv are projections based on what ballots have been counted to that point.

 
HuskerNation1 said:
I wish you would stop using the trend line for every scenario. I already explained how the economic trends you seem to want to give Obama credit for does not work. Had Obama passed all the tax cuts that Trump did, and cut regulations that Trump did, your logic would make sense. Yet Obama added regulations qnd did not cut them. He also did not pass such tax relief including cutting the corporate rate. Please just stop with this trend crap related to the benefits generated from Trump policies.
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@Moiraine How dare you use trend lines and actual data to make your point. For shame!

Obama may not have done those things, and yet the economy kept plugging along....

What relief is a minor tax cut to the middle class that will expire in a few years, while the corporate rates are permanent (and corporations only gave out bonuses while they are now cutting jobs)? How is it sound economic policy to make those tax cuts without making compromises in the budget for the inevitable shortfalls? Pretty short sited don't you think?

 
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Vegas said:
And Rush says a lot of dumb stuff as well. Trump is not a dictator, our country is protected by checks and balances. America has had a lot of horrible Presidents over the years including Barrack Obama. If someone doesn't believe the U.S. can withstand one American President then they must not have much faith in a system that has been around for nearly 250 years.
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I don't have much faith in the system. It's becoming less democratic all the time, the more money that is allowed in politics.

Also, maybe read the OP and some of the other posts again instead of having a narrow view of what people are thinking based on the purposely catchy topic title. Topic titles have a character limit, after all. I said right in the OP I don't think it will go down with Trump. Here are some parts of it again:

 

Even if Trump did nothing at all wrong other than trying to stop the investigation, everyone knows how they can do something wrong and get away with it.

But in the long term I think his presidency will do lasting damage unless there is a major restructuring of power that prevents what's happening from ever happening again.
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From what I recall you haven't addressed whether the so-called checks and balances should sit on their hands as Trump fires the boss of the team investigating him, his family, and his people, and replace him with a lackey who has stated he's against the investigation.

 
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mrandyk said:
It's worth restating to you that the question is whether our democracy will survive, not the nation itself. (Though if democracy dies I'm sure states will be looking to secede.)

I do believe you were misunderstood when you listed the Civil Rights Movement as something this country "survived", but you don't seem to realize the unique threat Trump poses. It's unlike anything this nation has ever seen. The checks and balances have been thrown out the window by a complicit House and Senate, they've given free reign to a destructive egomaniac. The insanity involving Russia and his obstruction of justice would have sunk him long ago if checks and balances were 
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What I said was taken out of context so thank-you for being fair and acknowledging that. But exactly what threat does Trump pose to our "Democracy?" This is nothing new, we hear this same story over and over again from the opposing party claiming that the current POTUS is abusing their power and destroying the the foundation of America. If I remember correctIy I can recall Obama saying "I have a pen and a phone" because he couldnt pass legislation through Congress. And he did just that, he signed executive order after executive order bypassing Congress and abusing the power that our founding fathers didn't invision. If our"democracy" was able to survive eight years under under Obama, I'm sure it will survive another eight years under President Trump.

 
Vegas said:
What I said was taken out of context so thank-you for being fair and acknowledging that. But exactly what threat does Trump pose to our "Democracy?" This is nothing new, we hear this same story over and over again from the opposing party claiming that the current POTUS is abusing their power and destroying the the foundation of America. If I remember correctIy I can recall Obama saying "I have a pen and a phone" because he couldnt pass legislation through Congress. And he did just that, he signed executive order after executive order bypassing Congress and abusing the power that our founding fathers didn't invision. If our"democracy" was able to survive eight years under under Obama, I'm sure it will survive another eight years under President Trump.
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https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-executive-orders/

"First of all, the number of executive orders issued by President Obama is grossly exaggerated here. Through his first term (i.e., the first four years of his presidency), Barack Obama issued 147 executive orders, not 923. (Barack Obama signed a total of 275 executive orders during his two terms, averaging 35 a year; the lowest number signed since Grover Cleveland.)"

FWIW....trump has issued 86 EOs so far in less than 2 years.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_actions_by_Donald_Trump

the biggest user of EOs?    Franklin D. Roosevelt - 3,522

 
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I'll add that Obama signed fewer EO's than any republican president other than Bush 41 and that was because he only served 4 years.

Also-I think we have discovered Ric's sock account.....

 
Vegas said:
And Rush says a lot of dumb stuff as well. Trump is not a dictator, our country is protected by checks and balances. America has had a lot of horrible Presidents over the years including Barrack Obama. If someone doesn't believe the U.S. can withstand one American President then they must not have much faith in a system that has been around for nearly 250 years.
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True, we have had bad Presidents before.  However, in my lifetime (which is on the longer end of the average poster here), we have never had a President who tries so hard to tear down our system of Democracy and plant seeds of doubt amongst his followers in the validity of our government through lies and deception.

 
Moiraine said:
This reply is mind boggling and it’s unbelievable that you think it makes sense. The results of economic policies are what matters when comparing the results of economic policies.

I’ll continue to use the correct analysis for as long as you continue to argue that Matt Masker scoring a single touchdown in the 4th quarter of a football game to beat Nebraska’s scoring record in a single game means that he’s far better at football than Adrian Martinez. I wish I could say you know it is a terrible argument but I no longer think that’s the case. 
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You are delusional. The economic results and positive outcomes being set now are a direct result of Trumps pro-growth policies. Stop pretending that this is a result of Obamas actions as he did not cut the corporate tax rate and he added to regulations and did not reduce them.  You can continue to make up stories to make yourself feel good...you certainly have a right to do that!

 
I'm still waiting for somebody to walk me through the terrible things Obama did, hopefully within the context of actual consequences and/or what our better Presidents would have done. 

 
HuskerNation1 said:
You are delusional. The economic results and positive outcomes being set now are a direct result of Trumps pro-growth policies. Stop pretending that this is a result of Obamas actions as he did not cut the corporate tax rate and he added to regulations and did not reduce them.  You can continue to make up stories to make yourself feel good...you certainly have a right to do that!
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So what you're saying is that without Trumps deregulation and tax cuts, the upward trend of the economy under Obama with higher taxes and more regulation would have stalled?

 
HuskerNation1 said:
You are delusional. The economic results and positive outcomes being set now are a direct result of Trumps pro-growth policies. Stop pretending that this is a result of Obamas actions as he did not cut the corporate tax rate and he added to regulations and did not reduce them.  You can continue to make up stories to make yourself feel good...you certainly have a right to do that!
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Seriously. When you see a chart that shows six years of consistent economic growth, followed by 18 months of the same results, what goes through your brain? 

 
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