Racism - It's a real thing.

[Guy Chamberlin]

My tax accountant always finds it amusing when people get excited or brag about the money they're getting back on their return.

It's not money they're "getting back," it's money they already earned that the government was holding, without paying interest. 

I believe the vast majority of Americans receiving W-2 income have taxes baked in, and whatever refunds they receive by no means indicate they didn't pay taxes. 

 

[VectorVictor]

Did I miss something?  Tax returns are because someone paid TOO MUCH income tax, not because they didn't pay.

No, you didn't. People are incorrectly equating receiving a refund with not paying any taxes, which is a fallacy.

The people with zero tax liability are a smaller subset of the overall people who are filing tax returns and getting a refund because of overpayment. Getting a refund =/= zero tax liability. 

 

[funhusker]

No, you didn't. People are incorrectly equating receiving a refund with not paying any taxes, which is a fallacy.

The people with zero tax liability are a smaller subset of the overall people who are filing tax returns and getting a refund because of overpayment. Getting a refund =/= zero tax liability. 

Where has this happened?

 

[Mierin]

High tax rates on the wealthy gets a disproportionate amount of attention. (Probably because the wealthy can afford to make it get more attention).

It’s one of the only problems I can think of where everyone who doesn’t have the problem wishes they did.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

By the time you take out the students, elderly, disabled, military, institutionalized....bla bla...bla.....that figure is much much smaller.  The stat is used to make people outraged at all the lazy people living off us hard working people.  Reality is, the vast majority of them are not people who you're going to kick off of assistance or all of a sudden start making pay income tax.

FOR

BES

I mean, you can skew the numbers however you like, but there are still 45% of households that don't pay income tax. Skewing it doesn't change the fact that the other half of the country has to bear the entire tax load for the half that isn't paying.

High tax rates on the wealthy gets a disproportionate amount of attention. (Probably because the wealthy can afford to make it get more attention).

It’s one of the only problems I can think of where everyone who doesn’t have the problem wishes they did.

Opportunity is endless. GET RICH, KIDS!

 

[BigRedBuster]

I mean, you can skew the numbers however you like, but there are still 45% of households that don't pay income tax. Skewing it doesn't change the fact that the other half of the country has to bear the entire tax load for the half that isn't paying.

I didn't skew anything.  

That number is thrown out by itself all the time as an indicator that theirs 47% of the population that's lazy and mooching off of the rest of the country.  All I did was dig farther into the numbers.  Who should start paying that isn't?

Elderly that can't work anymore?

Disabled that can't work?

Institutionalized people who can't work?

Military fighting in foreign lands?

Students that if they paid taxes would just end up with more student debt and in worse shape than they are now?

Who?

Unless you're willing to break the numbers down more and get specific about who you're going to have start paying taxes and how.....all that number is is a bunch of BS thrown out to get one group hating another group and get votes.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

I didn't skew anything.  

That number is thrown out by itself all the time as an indicator that theirs 47% of the population that's lazy and mooching off of the rest of the country.  All I did was dig farther into the numbers.  Who should start paying that isn't?

Elderly that can't work anymore?

Disabled that can't work?

Institutionalized people who can't work?

Military fighting in foreign lands?

Students that if they paid taxes would just end up with more student debt and in worse shape than they are now?

Who?

Unless you're willing to break the numbers down more and get specific about who you're going to have start paying taxes and how.....all that number is is a bunch of BS thrown out to get one group hating another group and get votes.

Again, it's still 47% of the population that isn't paying them.The details involved don't lessen the burden.

Who are the elderly that aren't paying taxes? Assuming they have a social security check coming in, and/or they're making 401K withdrawals, they are paying taxes.

 

[Mierin]

I mean, you can skew the numbers however you like, but there are still 45% of households that don't pay income tax. Skewing it doesn't change the fact that the other half of the country has to bear the entire tax load for the half that isn't paying.

Opportunity is endless. GET RICH, KIDS!

It’s strange to me discussing this independent of the following. The burdened group doesn’t seem so burdened to me.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

It’s strange to me discussing this independent of the following. The burdened group doesn’t seem so burdened to me.

I don't particularly care how much money people make.

Just because person A is making significantly more money than person B doesn't mean he/she should have to pick up the slack for person B, while person A is already paying a much larger share than person B would of to begin with.

 

[Mierin]

I don't particularly care how much money people make.

Just because person A is making significantly more money than person B doesn't mean he/she should have to pick up the slack for person B, while person A is already paying a much larger share than person B would of to begin with.

The fact people make a certain amount of $ determines the rate they’re paying

A large percentage of the population making incomes low enough to not pay taxes helps the upper percentiles increase their incomes.

The people below those threshholds would love to make more $ and pay taxes. The fact 47% or whatever aren’t paying them should not be looked at independently from income distribution. They should be viewed together. 

I think you’ve suggested a flat rate before. I don’t think capitalism would work if that were to happen. I think it would be an absolute disaster. We have to have consumers with available money to spend. And people in lower percentiles already pay a higher % of their incomes in sales tax. They are the ones putting a higher percentage of their $ back into the economy.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

The fact people make a certain amount of $ determines the rate they’re paying

A large percentage of the population making incomes low enough to not pay taxes helps the upper percentiles increase their incomes.

The people below those threshholds would love to make more $ and pay taxes. The fact 47% or whatever aren’t paying them should not be looked at independently from income distribution. They should be viewed together. 

Would they? All of them? Even most of them? As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of poor people in the Ozarks (where I live), and a lot of them seem perfectly content with their lot in life.

I don't have a problem with rich people paying more, I have a problem with them paying a higher percentage than everyone else. Just because they have the money doesn't mean we should disproportionately take it from them.

 

[TheSker]

Thats fine. But don’t use stars to make your point that don’t sell the whole story. 

Any and every stat has a "story" behind it.

 

[Mierin]

Would they? All of them? Even most of them? As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of poor people in the Ozarks (where I live), and a lot of them seem perfectly content with their lot in life.

I don't have a problem with rich people paying more, I have a problem with them paying a higher percentage than everyone else. Just because they have the money doesn't mean we should disproportionately take it from them.

Like I said, that would be a disaster.

The sheer amount of people, many of them who are working 40 hours a week for income that helps them just get by, would be royally screwed over (whether it be due to huge cuts in funding or increases in their taxes) and it would effect the top percentiles very negatively as well. They need people with money to spend more than they need their taxes lowered.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Like I said, that would be a disaster.

But, it'd be fair....

The real issue isn't that the rich aren't paying enough, it's the government's reckless spending. Fix that, and it'd do wonders.

 

[Mierin]

But, it'd be fair....

The real issue isn't that the rich aren't paying enough, it's the government's reckless spending. Fix that, and it'd do wonders.

Fair doesn’t matter if the country is s#!t. I want taxes to go back to pre W rates. We live in a country/system of government that enables people to make a s#!t ton of $. It makes sense for the people who are able to do that, and who decide other people’s incomes, giving back to it. After all they can and many do nudge policy in a certain direction or even write it. Even if said policy is bad for people’s health or even deadly, or garmful to their finances. That and getting loopholes removed are far more important and need to have been fixed before we ever even thought of lowering taxes.

Is the spending reckless because it’s over budget or because it’s wasteful?