The Biden / Ukraine Scandal

Apsu said:
Everything I have posted indicates that I oppose the DNC and corporate Democrats, believe in progressive values, and despise Trump and the Republicans. Most progressives have learned that the DNC would rather lose to Trump than win with a progressive. Neoliberal Democrats like yourself cannot fathom that their are more than two sides, and that anyone who is not a fan of establishment Democrats must by default be a Republican.
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you give 1 sentence every now and then saying you hate trump.   then proceed to make 20 posts demonizing the dems using trumps talking points.    i wonder how i could ever think you are a trumper flying a false flag

 
Ryan Grim is a very progressive journalist from the Intercept.

Democrats (the corporate neoliberal type) are not at all progressive.

That is why news outlets like the Intercept will criticize Biden on Ukraine, while doing so is blasphemy on CNN and MSNBC.

And the neoliberal Democrats will blindly accuse progressives of repeating Republican talking points.

 
Apsu said:
Ryan Grim is a very progressive journalist from the Intercept.

Democrats (the corporate neoliberal type) are not at all progressive.

That is why news outlets like the Intercept will criticize Biden on Ukraine, while doing so is blasphemy on CNN and MSNBC. 

And the neoliberal Democrats will blindly accuse progressives of repeating Republican talking points. 
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No, it's because they resort to them sometimes, because some progressives seem content to demonize Republicans and their moderate allies alike. My experience has been that these progressives seem more interested in criticizing everything and loudly proclaiming how much better and smarter they are than everyone else than getting things done.

Which is obviously not productive.

 
Danny Bateman said:
No, it's because they resort to them sometimes, because some progressives seem content to demonize Republicans and their moderate allies alike. My experience has been that these progressives seem more interested in criticizing everything and loudly proclaiming how much better and smarter they are than everyone else than getting things done.

Which is obviously not productive.
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Your post reminded me of a meme that went around after the 2016 election. It went something like “Not voting for Hillary because Sanders lost the primary is like going to the bar and insisting on drinking bleach because they didn’t have your favorite beer on tap.”

Let the primaries work themselves out. But damn! Whoever it is, support them over Trump if you claim to be “liberal” (or just a decent and thoughtful person) in any shape or form.

 
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Danny Bateman said:
No, it's because they resort to them sometimes, because some progressives seem content to demonize Republicans and their moderate allies alike. My experience has been that these progressives seem more interested in criticizing everything and loudly proclaiming how much better and smarter they are than everyone else than getting things done.

Which is obviously not productive.
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If Trump did not exist, progressives would still be criticizing Biden and other neoliberals.

We called CNN and MSNBC fake news long before he was running.

Two people can look at a situation and see a problem, and criticize it for completely different reasons.

If you think that we are smug, we have the same opinion of corporate Democrats.

Is there a common ground between progressives and neoliberals?

Unfortunately I do not belirve so, mostly because of the donor base.

That is why progressives want to see the DNC destroyed. Progress cannot be made until Trump and the Republicans are opposed by good candidates.

 
funhusker said:
Let the primaries work themselves out. But damn! Whoever it is, support them over Trump if you claim to be “liberal” (or just a decent and thoughtful person) in any shape or form.
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One of the principal reasons progressives did not vote for Hillary in 2016, was that if she won she would be the incumbent in 2020. And if the was the incumbent right now, we would not be having a spirited primary with the chance to vote for someone like Sanders.

The same goes for the 2020 cycle, we don't want centrist garbage.

 
Apsu said:
One of the principal reasons progressives did not vote for Hillary in 2016, was that if she won she would be the incumbent in 2020. And if the was the incumbent right now, we would not be having a spirited primary with the chance to vote for someone like Sanders.

The same goes for the 2020 cycle, we don't want centrist garbage.
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So you’re happy with “Trumps” until a progressive wins?

 
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funhusker said:
So you’re happy with “Trumps” until a progressive wins?
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That is a strawman assumption.

I would be less happy knowing that after four years of Hillary, that our choice was between more Hillary and another Republican.

What does make me happy, is the chance to support a progressive candidate in 2020.

 
Apsu said:
That is a strawman assumption.

I would be less happy knowing that after four years of Hillary, that our choice was between more Hillary and another Republican.

What does make me happy, is the chance to support a progressive candidate in 2020.
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I don’t think it’s a straw man. Trump and Hillary were the only choices.  You didn’t want HRC, that’s your choice.  But that means by default that you preferred Trump.  

At least by my logic, which definitely isn’t foolproof.

 
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