Poll: Abortion legality belief spectrum

[BigRedBuster]

There are many clinics that are specialized - you go there knowing that.  
 

You go to a hospital for care and (an ER for instance) shouldnt have a special focus or limitations.  

Really???  There are hospitals all over that specialize in one thing or another.  You work in a certain unit in a hospital that specializes in one thing or another.

Again...take healthcare out.  Do you really want people being fired because they believe something their employer is doing is morally wrong and simply expressing that opinion?

 

[Ratt Mhule]

I didn't say she refused to do it.  I said she had a moral problem with it.  She expressed the moral problem and the hospital worked around it.  

Thinking back, if the hospital would have forced the issue, I think she would have quit.

So...should she be fired simply because she expressed a moral problem with what the hospital was doing?  Do you really want to get into a situation where people are fired because the express moral issues with what an employer is doing?

I am an organ donor. Anyone who is an organ donor chooses to be. If I am clinically dead, I expect my family, doctors, and nurses to respect my wishes and do what needs to be done. 
 

If you are a nurse, you know what that entails when taking the job. If the hospital does things you dont like, dont apply there. But it is the hospitals job to find employees that follow procedure and will do what is asked of them. 
 

I am an xray technologist, if I say to

my employer, this person is gay and I am christian so I dont want to take care of this person because its against my religion, I would and should be fired. Healthcare is different than being a baker and refusing to bake a cake. If Im the only xray tech and I refuse to do something, then Im harming this patient.
 

If a nurse refuses to honor the wishes of the donor and the donors family, they are hurting the recipient. In your case, there were other nurses there to take over. Thats not the case for some hospitals. Nurses have specialties like doctors. You cant take a nurse from OBGYN floor and put them in that situation with no training so your situation doesnt work at smaller hospitals. 

 

[TGHusker]

By that same reasoning, shouldn't the churches then choose not to own/operate hospitals if they can't morally perform all the procedures deemed necessary by the community? Same for being a nurse or doctor?

The community could go to another hospital.  For an example, lets pretend I'm a hot dog vendor.  The community might want my hot dog stand to sell all kinds of hot dogs.  I don't like sauerkraut (personally I love hot dogs wt sauerkraut but that is a discussion for another thread in the food forum) so I made a business decision not to sell dogs wt kraut.  Let the community decide what services they want to buy from me and if they want kraut, they can shop at the hot dog stand down the street.  Like the church, I have a right to offer the services/products I desire and let the community and market forces decide if it wants to do business with me. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

If the hospital does things you dont like, dont apply there.

The hospital started doing these after she had worked there for years.

So...you're telling me that when you become a health care professional.  You give up any right to have a moral judgement on what you are asked to do.

Let's say the hospital starts doing some extreme therapy that some doctors think will make gay people straight.  Should all medical professionals in that hospital be forced to participate?

 

[Ratt Mhule]

The hospital started doing these after she had worked there for years.

So...you're telling me that when you become a health care professional.  You give up any right to have a moral judgement on what you are asked to do.

No. Like I said, if Im the only the xray tech in the hospital and a gay man needs a stat portable chest xray for a gunshot wound, I can say well Im christian and hea gay so I am making a moral decision to not take the xray. The hospital can then make a judgement and say well your moral judgements are harming patients so we need to find someone who will not harm patients. Its a two way street. Employees can look out for themselves but hospitals have to also. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

No. Like I said, if Im the only the xray tech in the hospital and a gay man needs a stat portable chest xray for a gunshot wound, I can say well Im christian and hea gay so I am making a moral decision to not take the xray. The hospital can then make a judgement and say well your moral judgements are harming patients so we need to find someone who will not harm patients. Its a two way street. Employees can look out for themselves but hospitals have to also. 

That is not the same thing.

The example I added to my post is more appropriate.  

 

[NM11046]

Really???  There are hospitals all over that specialize in one thing or another.  You work in a certain unit in a hospital that specializes in one thing or another.

Again...take healthcare out.  Do you really want people being fired because they believe something their employer is doing is morally wrong and simply expressing that opinion?

Really. If you go to an oncology hospital you go for onc.  If you go to a hospital that has multi specialties then you should be able to get the care you need.  You would not be taken to the onc unit if you had a heart condition or the OB office if you had a bullet wound.  The ER can care for you in an emergent situation and then triage you to the area you need to be seen. 
 

You are sort of merging issues here.  I assume you are implying a sort of whistleblowing scenario and thats very different from a employer who is doing something legal that you just don't agree with.  Most scenarios where there isn't a “job fit” for someone, whether its skill or talent based or I suppose personal issues they work to get you into an appropriate job.  If your problem as an employee is broadly based on the employer for doing something legal Im guessing you should move on and would be guided to find something that offers your primary driver (ethic issues) a match.   If you are a cardiac nurse that has issue with heart transplants you are going to have issues finding work.  

 

[Ratt Mhule]

That is not the same thing.

The example I added to my post is more appropriate.  

Your example is is not proven science or medicine, so any hospital that practices pseudo medicine can be shut down. So yes, when s#!t is made up, I would think people would object. 
 

Heart transplants are not pseudo medicine. If the hospital or city decides that it will become a level 1 trauma center, which is what happened in the case of Bergan Mercy in Omaha, the nurse in question can be asked to be moved to a different area of the hospital and be trained so she does not have to partake in these procedures. But if she decides to stay in that specialty, knowing the hospital is now trauma 1 medical center, she needs to do her job. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

I must say that your opinion on an employer being able to force employees to do something they feel is immoral surprises me.  

It's interesting.

 

[NM11046]

The community could go to another hospital.  For an example, lets pretend I'm a hot dog vendor.  The community might want my hot dog stand to sell all kinds of hot dogs.  I don't like sauerkraut (personally I love hot dogs wt sauerkraut but that is a discussion for another thread in the food forum) so I made a business decision not to sell dogs wt kraut.  Let the community decide what services they want to buy from me and if they want kraut, they can shop at the hot dog stand down the street.  Like the church, I have a right to offer the services/products I desire and let the community and market forces decide if it wants to do business with me. 

Thats fine as long as there is a hospital in that same community that offers all services and is equidistant from every potential patient in town that works.  As long as you don’t have a contract ambulance service that works.
 

You cant decide that patients in a certain region are only worthy of certain procedures because of who owns the institution.  

 

[BigRedBuster]

Heart transplants are not pseudo medicine. If the hospital or city decides that it will become a level 1 trauma center, which is what happened in the case of Bergan Mercy in Omaha, the nurse in question can be asked to be moved to a different area of the hospital and be trained ao she does not have to partake in these procedures. But if she decides to stay in that specialty, knowing the hospital is now trauma 1 medical center, she needs to do her job.

The ability for doctors to transplant a heart into someone else successfully is proven.  You are correct.

The part that is debatable and the part that is pertinent to this discussion is, when is the person dead?  That....is a matter of opinion.

 

[Ratt Mhule]

And your opinion that healthcare providers can pick and choose what procedures they want to partake in surprises me. 

 

[Ratt Mhule]

The ability for doctors to transplant a heart into someone else successfully is proven.  You are correct.

The part that is debatable and the part that is pertinent to this discussion is, when is the person dead?  That....is a matter of opinion.

Like I said earlier, donors choose to be donors. If the person is unable to make their own decisions about being a donor the proxy makes decisions based on what the patients wishes are. The hospital and healthcare team need to respect these wishes. There are ways to tell if the person is clinically dead. A machine keeping someone alive is not being alive. 

 

[NM11046]

I must say that your opinion on an employer being able to force employees to do something they feel is immoral surprises me.  

It's interesting.

As I and Red Denver or Frost Scott have both said - healthcare is very different from other positions.  
 

But I can also say that through my HR and hiring/management training that an employer has to provide an environment where employees regardless of handicap can perform the job. I have to install elevators, hearing devices, change desk height - whatever so that every employee can Do the job per the job description - if they opt not to that is their issue.  I think most employers would try to help someone find a new role or job but its not a requirement for the employer. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

And your opinion that healthcare providers can pick and choose what procedures they want to partake in surprises me. 

Again....she didn't refuse.  She raised her moral problem.  The hospital had the ability to work around it.  They could have forced her to do it.  But, they didn't.  I respected the hospital on this.

Like I said earlier, donors choose to be donors. If the person is unable to make their own decisions about being a donor the proxy makes decisions based on what the patients wishes are. The hospital and healthcare team need to respect these wishes. There are ways to tell if the person is clinically dead. A machine keeping someone alive is not being alive. 

That's my opinion....but, I respect other peoples opinion on it.