The Right to Carry a Gun

Moiraine said:
The correlation between mental illness and gun violence seems weak to non existent to me. Mental illness rates are somewhat high in the U.S., but it is also high in Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Australia, and Canada as well.

This tells me there is either no correlation at all, or these countries with high rates of mental illness and few gun violence issues have few gun violence issues because of their gun laws.

And let’s say there is a weak correlation - shouldn’t we take both approaches? Make it a bit harder to get a gun, and easier/cheaper to get treatment for mental illness?
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For the sake of the mentally ill, yes, we should obviously make it easier to get help/treatment. That's the simple, humane thing to do.

But for those expecting that to have any impact on gun violence, they're going to be disappointed. But at least some good would come out of that disappointment.

 
knapplc said:
Speaking specifically about the inner cities, there's a whole host of issues they're dealing with that have very little to do with the kind of person that shoots up a mall or a concert.

But the one thing they all have in common is easy access to guns. It really is as simple as that.
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I agree, the problem of inner city violence is really not related to what causes a person to shoot up a school. And I understand that we have easy access the guns but it's not that simple and doesn't begin to explain what causes a person to do something like that.

There are lots of contributing factors but easy access to guns is only a means to an end. I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance. In your opinion, what is the root cause of these mass shooters?  You and I and everyone in this country has easy access to guns yet the vast majority of us don't go shoot up a mall. So what's different between us and them? It has to be something (s) other than easy access and a culture that worships guns. It may not be mental illness but I guess I don't know what else to call such disturbing and antisocial behavior. It sure isn't the logical, inevitable result of having easy access to guns or we all would be doing it.

 
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JJ Husker said:
I agree, the problem of inner city violence is really not related to what causes a person to shoot up a school. And I understand that we have easy access the guns but it's not that simple and doesn't begin to explain what causes a person to do something like that.

There are lots of contributing factors but easy access to guns is only a means to an end. I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance. In your opinion, what is the root cause of these mass shooters?  You and I and everyone in this country has easy access to guns yet the vast majority of us don't go shoot up a mall. So what's different between us and them? It has to be something (s) other than easy access and a culture that worships guns. It may not be mental illness but I guess I don't know what else to call such disturbing and antisocial behavior. It sure isn't the logical, inevitable result of having easy access to guns or we all would be doing it.
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It is mental illness...it is just not an illness that Dr. Laura has created a name for as of yet.

 
knapplc said:
Mental

Illness

Is

Not

The

Culprit

To

This

Problem
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You seem really eager to dismiss it completely and only acknowledge that guns are the sole reason for gun violence.  That guns existing are the only reason people commit violence against others.  It's not culture. It's not stress. It's not upbringing.  It's not mental health.  It's just guns that switch some light on for people and that makes them shoot other people.  To each their own I guess.

 
JJ Husker said:
I tried to make this point earlier but you were more interested in scoring an internet smart a$$ point than replying to the actual substance.
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Can you stop with these personal attacks? This is childish.

I've made my point, it's easy access to guns and a culture that worships them. You don't have to agree, but this kind of nonsense belongs in the Shed.

 
knapplc said:
Can you stop with these personal attacks? This is childish.

I've made my point, it's easy access to guns and a culture that worships them. You don't have to agree, but this kind of nonsense belongs in the Shed.
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You're funny. So when someone clearly demonstrates the problem is obviously not as simple as easy access and culture you reply something unrelated and unfounded about personal attacks.  I thought you may want to try being serious by discussing the topic and possibly consider some other points of view. I guess I was wrong.

 
JJ Husker said:
You're funny. So when someone clearly demonstrates the problem is obviously not as simple as easy access and culture you reply something unrelated and unfounded about personal attacks.  I thought you may want to try being serious by discussing the topic and possibly consider some other points of view. I guess I was wrong.
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Did you really do that though? I didn't see any sort of clear demonstration. 

 
Nebfanatic said:
Did you really do that though? I didn't see any sort of clear demonstration. 
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I thought I made a pretty compelling point about it. Nobody yet has offered up any explanation as to how I may be wrong.

Maybe I'm out of touch with how things work in P&R. I thought if you disagreed with someone that you should explain why, not simply keep repeating your own opinion as if it were gospel. Am I expecting too much?

 
JJ Husker said:
I thought I made a pretty compelling point about it. Nobody yet has offered up any explanation as to how I may be wrong.

Maybe I'm out of touch with how things work in P&R. I thought if you disagreed with someone that you should explain why, not simply keep repeating your own opinion as if it were gospel. Am I expecting too much?
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Well except for the data that shows other countries have similar or worse mental health problems compared to the US, yet they don't face this problem whatsoever. You may do better if you could provide some compelling data that supports your point like others opposing you have.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Well except for the data that shows other countries have similar or worse mental health problems compared to the US, yet they don't face this problem whatsoever. You may do better if you could provide some compelling data that supports your point like others opposing you have.
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My point is NOT that mental illness is the problem. Where have I said that? I've simply said there must be something other than easy access and a culture that worships guns that causes these people to do what they do. Of course data exists linking easy access to the problem. Why wouldn't it, we have easy access. But imo that is a constant in the equation. I mean we could blame any problem that exists in this country on easy access and the data would support it. But that does not begin to explain why person A shoots up a school and persons B thru ZZZZ don't. They all live in this country under the same constant conditions of easy access and gun worship. I guess I'm more interested in the actual cause that puts people on that path.

 
JJ Husker said:
Maybe I'm out of touch with how things work in P&R. I thought if you disagreed with someone that you should explain why, not simply keep repeating your own opinion as if it were gospel. Am I expecting too much?
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No, as I've been reminded over and over and over and over and over and over and over and OVER again, that is in fact exactly how one is supposed to conduct themselves and only using your opinion as a point is ignorant.  Unless a meeting happened in the last week that I missed.

 
Nebfanatic said:
Well except for the data that shows other countries have similar or worse mental health problems compared to the US, yet they don't face this problem whatsoever. You may do better if you could provide some compelling data that supports your point like others opposing you have.
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Who the hell needs data from an anti gun rights website or a pro gun rights website to clearly see that evil exists in this world with or without guns.  Guns make it easier for bad people to do bad things.  Making it harder legally for bad people to obtain them will slow it down some, but nothing shy of letting Beto become president to take ALL the guns away is going to get rid of gun violence.

 
JJ Husker said:
In your opinion, what is the root cause of these mass shooters?  You and I and everyone in this country has easy access to guns yet the vast majority of us don't go shoot up a mall. So what's different between us and them? It has to be something (s) other than easy access and a culture that worships guns. It may not be mental illness but I guess I don't know what else to call such disturbing and antisocial behavior. It sure isn't the logical, inevitable result of having easy access to guns or we all would be doing it.
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Seems to me like you are insinuating mental illness is the major problem at play here. If that's not what you are saying here, what exactly are you saying? 

 
Redux said:
Who the hell needs data from an anti gun rights website or a pro gun rights website to clearly see that evil exists in this world with or without guns.  Guns make it easier for bad people to do bad things.  Making it harder legally for bad people to obtain them will slow it down some, but nothing shy of letting Beto become president to take ALL the guns away is going to get rid of gun violence.
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That's strange, I didn't know mental health statistics and gun violence statistics were only posted on anti or pro gun right websites. Funny how when scientific data doesn't go peoples way they want to throw it out the window.

Question, does evil exist less in Norway? Do we have an evil problem in America? 

 
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