What Spiritual/Religious Books are you reading

[TGHusker]

Yes, I know there is a thread on books elsewhere on HB - put this is the Politics and Religion forum and I think we should have a book list just for

those topics.  I'll create one for Politics/History as well.

I tend to have several books open at one time - so I'll name 3 here + one bonus:

Just finished this book by Brian Zahnd.  This book addresses several concepts and may challenge modern American traditional evangelical thinking

1. Is the OT understanding of God, as a revengeful, wrathful God set in stone & based on the regional understanding of gods or did the Jewish understanding

of God change over time (from sacrifice to justice and mercy)

2. Did God have an anger problem that could only be resolved/appeased by killing his son on the cross(monster god concept) or where there other concepts in play

3. Is God always angry at us, as depicted in Jonathan Edward's famous sermon 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God' or has God's attitude always been that of love

4. Is God's justice retributive or restorative?

5. Does God have wrath planned for the earth (think Late Great Planet Earth or the Left Behind series) or is His plan for greater than what we can imagine?

(Hint: choose the right side of those contrasting ideas and you will understand the aim of the book)

Just starting this book by NT Wright.  Over the past year, I've gotten to appreciate the writings of NT Wright. Some have said he is our generation's C.S. Lewis and I've

come to agree.  Sometimes his writing style is hard to follow as he writes like someone would talk - going off down side roads but eventually making all side roads to come

together to support the conclusion of the chapter.  He is an Oxford scholar and Anglican Bishop.
From Amazon:

In The Day the Revolution Began, N. T. Wright once again challenges commonly held Christian beliefs as he did in his acclaimed Surprised by Hope. Demonstrating the rigorous intellect and breathtaking knowledge that have long defined his work, Wright argues that Jesus’ death on the cross was not only to absolve us of our sins; it was actually the beginning of a revolution commissioning the Christian faithful to a new vocation—a royal priesthood responsible for restoring and reconciling all of God’s creation.

Wright argues that Jesus’ crucifixion must be understood within the much larger story of God’s purposes to bring heaven and earth together. The Day the Revolution Began offers a grand picture of Jesus’ sacrifice and its full significance for the Christian faith, inspiring believers with a renewed sense of mission, purpose, and hope, and reminding them of the crucial role the Christian faith must play in protecting and shaping the future of the world

This is my long term reading project.  I say long term because the 2 previous books above challenge my intellect - and then my soul. This book challenges my soulish nature directly and my intellect as a result.  It challenges me to the core of my faith and asks if I'm living the Christian life I'm called to - does my heart and my actions match my confession?? So this is a slow read for a couple of reasons. My heart can only take so much of the 'challenge to change' at one time and 2ndly, the author is above my 'pay grade' in intellect and almost every sentence has to be underlined, pondered and thought about for it to produce the change the book intends.  It is basically a study of the beatitudes of Matthew 5. The 40 page chapter on humility is worth the price of the book itself (I'm proud that I read it ). The author hits every topic from every possible angle.  It is now one of the top 2 books I would keep in my library if I had to get rid of all others - I'll post the other one below.

The author was a philosopher/scholar during the time of Hitler. He was a Catholic univ instructor who had to flee Germany. He got under Hitler's skin so much because he spoke the truth against Hitler, that the author was never really safe until the war ended.  He wrote this book in 1949.  It is just as relevant today.  Transformation in Christ is considered a modern classic and I can see why.  I came across it during a time of reflection at the Clear Creek Abby about 45 miles east of Tulsa.  I go there sometimes just to get away from the rat race and to gain perspective.

Bonus: This is the book I would hold on to if I could only keep one book outside of the Bible.  It covers the Christian life from 12 different perspectives.  Ken Boa quotes a wide range of people from the mystics and contemplative to the intellectuals - Augustine to modern authors.  Topics range from devotional life to vocational life.

 

[NUance]

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"These are God's People".   An excellent overview of the bible from a historical perspective.    I read this last year.  It was so good (and I want to learn more) that I'm re-reading it.   I just started the section covering Jesus' life this morning.   

I'm also reading "That's In The Bible".  But it's not so much a book as it is a series of quizzes.  Each chapter has a short intro on the topic though.  

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm so disgusted with American Christianity right now that this is the type of book I'm reading right now.  

It's peaceful and brings me back to what is important.  Nature.  I love the out doors and when I spend enough time in it, it reminds me of how powerful God really is.

 

[TGHusker]

I'm so disgusted with American Christianity right now that this is the type of book I'm reading right now.  

It's peaceful and brings me back to what is important.  Nature.  I love the out doors and when I spend enough time in it, it reminds me of how powerful God really is.

Looks like a cool book.    Some of the closest times I felt to God was alone on top of Mt Evans (that 14teener SW of Denver) at 9 am one morning.  Also as a 18 year old - on the tractor at night plowing the field under a full sheet of stars.  Something about being alone in nature that helps get us back to our true north. 

 

[TGHusker]

I think it just speaks to our inner conscience.  I don't have any god whatsoever, but I feel at peace in nature.  That feeling you think you have isn't anything outside of yourself...though I think many Christians who were brought up that way default to it as reasoning.

Believe me, I felt called to become a pastor during my college time and thought that I was being told by god to pursue that as my course of study.  Thinking back on it now, I realize that I wanted to feel that so I willed it into being.  I was raised as a Christian and taught how to get those feelings...groomed to get them.  I never questioned those feelings until much later.

Long story short, there doesn't need to be a god to be spiritual and feel that kind of peace.  I've felt it more now without a belief in god than I ever felt it when I had one.

I respect your position but I wasn't talking about just peace in particular.  Peace can come I think from being rightly balanced in our thoughts and actions - there is no inner conflict of the soul - as our 'who' matches our 'do'.  Since I do believe God exists and there is a real, vital relationship there, I believe there are times we feel closer to God than at other times just like we would feel closer to a friend at different times.  As such, a relationship wt God involves more than just the concept of peace. Gary Thomas wrote an interesting book called "Sacred Pathways.. Discovering your soul's path to God".  In it he notes how we all differ in how we approach or sense God in our lives.  For some it may be through nature, others through the intellect, others via contemplation, others via caring, etc.  Nature, the intellect, etc can be different connection points based on how we are wired as an individual.  Some people like liturgy others like more freedom in worship for example.  There may be a sense of connection even when there is not peace.   

 

[TGHusker]

Not trying to trash anything with Christianity...just trying to say that the feeling of closeness to a spiritual being is not unique to Christianity...it's found in numerous spiritual practices all over the world.

Agree.  That is when we dive into apologetics, etc.   A whole different topic then what this thread is about, so I won't hijack it.  I've had those discussions so many times on HB that we are mostly talking over each others head.  Each position has its 'experts', etc.  

By the way, mentioning the book above wasn't to impress anyone or expect all books to be impressive. What is impressive for one may not be for another. I'm only relating my experience.   

 

[BigRedBuster]

Interesting concept...I took a quick look at the book but it honestly doesn't impress me much nor say anything new.

I'd imagine that many, many people who don't know the god of the Bible can feel connection, relationship, and closeness with their spiritual deity they worship who would say the exact same thing that you're saying and perhaps the book is saying as well.  Americans like us often take things for granted in this area because of how Christian dominated our society is.  One might argue, who is correct?  The person who is spiritual for the god of the Bible or the one who is spiritual for the deity they worship who is not...or are they both just deluded and neither one is right?

Either way, a connection with god or another deity...or a connection without a deity/god all together can be like what you're alluding to above.  After all, spiritual enlightenment through Buddhism grants the same feelings and closeness and spiritual high without a deity at all to worship.

Not trying to trash anything with Christianity...just trying to say that the feeling of closeness to a spiritual being is not unique to Christianity...it's found in numerous spiritual practices all over the world.

As a Christian, I have absolutely no problem with anything you have said.  To answer the bolded, why not both?  Let me explain.

For some time, I've been contemplating what really is the difference between the God I know as a Christian and a higher power that say a Buddhist believes in and understands? I keep coming back to the fact that humans keep trying to interpret and pit one group against the other as though, "I'M RIGHT AND YOU"RE WRONG".  Actually, many religions try to do that.

Anyway, what if, they are both right?  Meaning, what if my God and Buddha are actually the same spiritual being?  But, over time, different groups experience that same higher power differently?

What I've come to is that I realize I'm a Christian who practices that through Catholicism.  And, with the thought process I have explained here, I have come to really respect and admire people from many different religions from Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, Native American spirituality...and on and on and on.  They have all helped me become more spiritual in how I view the world and relate to people.

One of the people in history that I would have loved to meet and spend some time around was Mahatma Gandhi.  His spirituality and commitment to peace has always fascinated me.  I feel that if I would spend some time around him, he would actually help me be more spiritual in my Christianity even though he wasn't Christian because I believe what Christ tried teaching us, is so close to how Gandhi lived his life.

Does that make sense?  Sorry for the ramble.  I typically try to stay out of religious discussions on here because it always seems to delve into whose right and whose wrong and I have no desire to be involved in that.

 

[TGHusker]

What I've come to is that I realize I'm a Christian who practices that through Catholicism.  And, with the thought process I have explained here, I have come to really respect and admire people from many different religions from Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, Native American spirituality...and on and on and on.  They have all helped me become more spiritual in how I view the world and relate to people.

:yeah        Like you as a Christian, I see the love of God as being so much bigger than 'us 4 and no more' that we've come to experience too much of in America.   Good post.

 

[BigRedBuster]

It's convenient to come to this conclusion...

That is not why I came to this point of thought.

 

[TGHusker]

It's morphed itself, absorbed pagan rituals/holidays, all so it can appeal to more people and constantly change along with the times.  Since it's constantly changing and adapting, it can never be proven false because it will just change again when it is.

The core tenants of the faith have not changed. These are found in the creeds which have existed for most of church history.

Societal adaptability is because the faith doesn't make a distinction as the Apostle Paul says  between Greek or Jew, Male or Female, Free or Slave. Christ dies for all and he was raised for all.  This is the core of the faith.  Have churches and denominations added to the core creeds unnecessarily - yes.  Some of that can related to cultural differences where the faith is practiced and some to other issues.  But because the core of the faith has not changed, any society/culture can adapt it to their particular situation. 

 

[TGHusker]

We'll agree to disagree then. 

We can agree on that  my friend

 

[TGHusker]

I'm finding this to be a very interesting book.   It is about Christian universalism.   Just a couple chapters in but find it to be an eye opening read.  

https://www.amazon.com/Inescapable-Love-God-Thomas-Talbott/dp/1498222412?asin=1625646909&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1

Will the love of God save us all? In this book Thomas Talbott seeks to expose the extent to which the Western theological tradition has managed to twist the New Testament message of love, forgiveness, and hope into a message of fear and guilt. According to the New Testament proclamation, he argues, God's love is both unconditional in its nature and unlimited in its scope; hence, no one need fear, for example, that God's love might suddenly turn into loveless hatred at the moment of one's physical death. For God's love remains the same yesterday, today, and forever. But neither should one ignore the New Testament theme of divine judgment, which Talbott thinks the Western theological tradition has misunderstood entirely. He argues in particular that certain patterns of fallacious reasoning, which crop up repeatedly in the works of various theologians and Bible scholars, have prevented many from appreciating St. Paul's explicit teaching that God is merciful to all in the end. This second edition of Talbott's classic work is fully revised, updated, and substantially expanded with new material. ""I am not exaggerating when I say that the first edition of this book changed my life. Its core chapters provided my despairing heart with the utterly unexpected and glorious hope that 'all will be well'--that God's victory over sin will truly be complete! This classic and compelling case for Christian universalism is now even better in this revised and expanded edition. Highly recommended!"" --Robin A. Parry, author of The Evangelical Universalist ""Among sustained defenses of Christian universalism, I know of no book that's as effective at presenting rigorous arguments in a manner engaging and accessible to non-specialists. The new edition retains that balance while tackling recent arguments and introducing new material--including a new chapter, 'Predestination unto Glory.' The Inescapable Love of God is public philosophy at its best: serious philosophical and theological argumentation that speaks to those for whom the question of whether God saves all is no mere academic issue but a deeply personal one."" --Eric Reitan, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK ""The Inescapable Love of God is an important book. Its author, Thomas Talbott, is the leading defender of Christian universalism in the philosophical world. But this is in no way an academic work; rather, it is a remarkable combination of memoir, biblical exegesis, and popular philosophy. Talbott argues compellingly that the love of God will prevail for all whom God loves--that is, for everyone!"" --Tom Senor, University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, AR ""Tom Talbott defends universal salvation with both serious biblical exegesis and philosophically sophisticated arguments. His multifaceted case for universalism has challenged my understanding of hell more than any other writer I have read. This book is essential reading for anyone involved in this vital debate."" --Jerry L. Walls, Houston Baptist University, Houston, TX Thomas Talbott is Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. He has published numerous articles and book chapters in defense of Christian universalism.

 

[TGHusker]

The Inescapable Love of God: Second Edition Paperback – by Thomas Talbott 



Just finished reading this book.  I've evolved over time from Arminianism, (strong belief in human will & sovereignty in salvation), to Calvinism, (strong belief in God's will & sovereignty) in salvation to Universalism - "God wills that ALL men be saved" - not just a select few (Calvinism) or those lucky enough to live in a time and place to hear the gospel and then choose of their own accord to believe (Arminianism) - but all people - the clear reading of many inclusive verses in the New Testament.   It is only in Universalism where Christ is truly the victor whereby His gospel reaches all people (including in the next life) and where the promise comes true that "Every knee will bow and tongue confess Him as Lord".   This author presents the idea that under Arminianism, human will is sovereign over God's will (that all be saved).  While under Calvinism there is such a contradiction to the Biblical claim that God's essential nature is love and the Calvinist belief that God willfully condemns most of mankind to a cruel eternal judgment.  Neither one present Christ's death and resurrection as a true ultimate victory over sin, death and the grave as Paul talks about in 1Corinthians 15 and elsewhere.   This isn't a wishy washy Universalism void of true justice and discipline, but one that says even after this life - God still strives with us whereby we eventually find His love to be inescapable.  We willfully turn to him as the scales are removed from our eyes.  Paul says 'now we see in part, but then we shall see clearly'. 

The author points out that it was this type of Universalism that the church held to for the first 4 centuries until Augustine made popular the current understanding of hell, judgment etc in the western church.  The Eastern Orthodox church (which split with Romanism in 1054) still holds the original universalism theology.  

If you are a skeptic, doubter or have been turned off by the American Evangelical, Fundamentalistic gospel  I encourage you to give it a read. It is a rather dense read (he is both a theologian and philosopher) but very straight forward and clearly defines the differences between the 3 theological views on salvation.   His chapters on evil in our world is both a difficult slow read but enlightening.  Helps to answer the "If God is good why is there such evil in this world" question. 

In summary:  "ALL WILL BE WELL" 

Other related books:

I just started this book which may be a bit more accessible:  The Triumph of Mercy: The Reconciliation of All through Jesus Christ   by George Hurd



A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel Paperback by Bradley Jersak




I read this book previously and found it does a good job addressing the topic of hell, judgment, etc:  



Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hell, Hope, and the New Jerusalem by  Bradley Jersak


A good introductory book on the subject which was the first book I read on the topic:

Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News  by Brian Zahnd

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1625646909/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 



 



 

Will the love of God save us all? In this book Thomas Talbott seeks to expose the extent to which the Western theological tradition has managed to twist the New Testament message of love, forgiveness, and hope into a message of fear and guilt. According to the New Testament proclamation, he argues, God's love is both unconditional in its nature and unlimited in its scope; hence, no one need fear, for example, that God's love might suddenly turn into loveless hatred at the moment of one's physical death. For God's love remains the same yesterday, today, and forever. But neither should one ignore the New Testament theme of divine judgment, which Talbott thinks the Western theological tradition has misunderstood entirely. He argues in particular that certain patterns of fallacious reasoning, which crop up repeatedly in the works of various theologians and Bible scholars, have prevented many from appreciating St. Paul's explicit teaching that God is merciful to all in the end. This second edition of Talbott's classic work is fully revised, updated, and substantially expanded with new material. ""I am not exaggerating when I say that the first edition of this book changed my life. Its core chapters provided my despairing heart with the utterly unexpected and glorious hope that 'all will be well'--that God's victory over sin will truly be complete! This classic and compelling case for Christian universalism is now even better in this revised and expanded edition. Highly recommended!"" --Robin A. Parry, author of The Evangelical Universalist ""Among sustained defenses of Christian universalism, I know of no book that's as effective at presenting rigorous arguments in a manner engaging and accessible to non-specialists. The new edition retains that balance while tackling recent arguments and introducing new material--including a new chapter, 'Predestination unto Glory.' The Inescapable Love of God is public philosophy at its best: serious philosophical and theological argumentation that speaks to those for whom the question of whether God saves all is no mere academic issue but a deeply personal one."" --Eric Reitan, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK ""The Inescapable Love of God is an important book. Its author, Thomas Talbott, is the leading defender of Christian universalism in the philosophical world. But this is in no way an academic work; rather, it is a remarkable combination of memoir, biblical exegesis, and popular philosophy. Talbott argues compellingly that the love of God will prevail for all whom God loves--that is, for everyone!"" --Tom Senor, University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, AR ""Tom Talbott defends universal salvation with both serious biblical exegesis and philosophically sophisticated arguments. His multifaceted case for universalism has challenged my understanding of hell more than any other writer I have read. This book is essential reading for anyone involved in this vital debate."" --Jerry L. Walls, Houston Baptist University, Houston, TX Thomas Talbott is Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. He has published numerous articles and book chapters in defense of Christian universalism.