Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

hunter49 said:
have heard the same, docs and hospitals getting paid for cause of death listed as co-vid....corruption is rife in the system.
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I'm hearing just the opposite: a huge unexpected spike in pneumonia deaths this spring that they now realize were mostly unattributed COVID deaths. Thousands of under-reported COVID deaths in New York due to an overwhelmed system. In Florida and other states there may be political pressure not to list the COVID deaths.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/florida-coronavirus-death-figures-withheld/index.html

 
Looking back, they're realizing many of the major outbreaks were fueled by a singular event held at the worst possible time: an Italian soccer match, the CES trade show in Vegas, medical conference in Boston, spring break in Florida. A lot of things will get back to normal soon, but sports, live concerts, and auditorium events are going to take a hit for awhile. 

Korea did everything right and went back to business quicker than everyone. But the moment they reopened their nightclubs, it started all over again and screwed up the re-opening of schools.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-south-korea-cluster-reopened-nightclubs-delays-reopening-schools-today-2020-05-11/

 
DevoHusker said:
it may not be death related, but hospitals are definitely getting paid for COVID related cases...

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/14-health-systems-receiving-biggest-cares-act-payments.html
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First paragraph.

Hospitals across the U.S. received their first payments in April from the $175 billion in relief aid Congress allocated to cover expenses or lost revenues tied to the COVID-19 pandemic. 
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Not all of this is based off of covering expenses for COVID patients.  There has been a big drop in patients at some hospitals due to delayed treatments or surgeries which has caused them to have budget issues.  

 
DevoHusker said:
it may not be death related, but hospitals are definitely getting paid for COVID related cases...

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/14-health-systems-receiving-biggest-cares-act-payments.html
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Did you actually read this?  That article is not related to anything about hospitals getting money for COVID patients/deaths.  Its about hospitals taking money from the CARES Act, which any business was able to do due to loss revenue from people being homebound.

 
Red Five said:
Did you actually read this?  That article is not related to anything about hospitals getting money for COVID patients/deaths.  Its about hospitals taking money from the CARES Act, which any business was able to do due to loss revenue from people being homebound.
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The actual first sentence on the link:

Hospitals across the U.S. received their first payments in April from the $175 billion in relief aid Congress allocated to cover expenses or lost revenues tied to the COVID-19 pandemic.

 
DevoHusker said:
The actual first sentence on the link:

Hospitals across the U.S. received their first payments in April from the $175 billion in relief aid Congress allocated to cover expenses or lost revenues tied to the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Read what you copied/pasted.  This has nothing to do with them seeing COVID patients.  They got payments for lost revenue due to people not going to doctors due to many/most states completely banning elective procedures in April.  Also the payments were supposed to help cover expenses for them to buy additional PPE and train their workforce for the COVID environment.

 
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DevoHusker said:
it may not be death related, but hospitals are definitely getting paid for COVID related cases...

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/14-health-systems-receiving-biggest-cares-act-payments.html
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BigRedBuster said:
First paragraph.

Not all of this is based off of covering expenses for COVID patients.  There has been a big drop in patients at some hospitals due to delayed treatments or surgeries which has caused them to have budget issues.  
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Red Five said:
Read what you copied/pasted.  This has nothing to do with them seeing COVID patients.  They got payments for lost revenue due to people not going to doctors due to many/most states completely banning elective procedures in April.  Also the payments were supposed to help cover expenses for them to buy additional PPE and train their workforce for the COVID environment.
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Everyone is pretty much focusing on different aspects of the bill and using that to argue their point.  

They are getting paid for increased expenses as well as decreased revenue due to COVID.

@DevoHusker said it isn't just patient deaths (which I think was an earlier assertion) but they are getting paid for COVID cases.

@BigRedBuster You just said basically the same thing @DevoHusker said then acted like it was an argument against what he said.  Not all of it is supposed to cover COVID cases, but some of it is.

@Red Five It does have to do with having to treat COVID patients.  Not all of it, but some of it does.  And having to buy additional supplies and do additional training is exactly (part of) what they are getting paid to do.  They wouldn't have to do that if it wasn't for COVID.

As announced in early April, a portion of the $100 billion Provider Relief Fund will be used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured.
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HHS.gov

 
Mavric said:
Everyone is pretty much focusing on different aspects of the bill and using that to argue their point.  

They are getting paid for increased expenses as well as decreased revenue due to COVID.

@DevoHusker said it isn't just patient deaths (which I think was an earlier assertion) but they are getting paid for COVID cases.

@BigRedBuster You just said basically the same thing @DevoHusker said then acted like it was an argument against what he said.  Not all of it is supposed to cover COVID cases, but some of it is.

@Red Five It does have to do with having to treat COVID patients.  Not all of it, but some of it does.  And having to buy additional supplies and do additional training is exactly (part of) what they are getting paid to do.  They wouldn't have to do that if it wasn't for COVID.

HHS.gov
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Thanks Mav for this accurate 30,000 foot view of the discussion

 
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Mavric said:
Everyone is pretty much focusing on different aspects of the bill and using that to argue their point.  

They are getting paid for increased expenses as well as decreased revenue due to COVID.

@DevoHusker said it isn't just patient deaths (which I think was an earlier assertion) but they are getting paid for COVID cases.

@BigRedBuster You just said basically the same thing @DevoHusker said then acted like it was an argument against what he said.  Not all of it is supposed to cover COVID cases, but some of it is.

@Red Five It does have to do with having to treat COVID patients.  Not all of it, but some of it does.  And having to buy additional supplies and do additional training is exactly (part of) what they are getting paid to do.  They wouldn't have to do that if it wasn't for COVID.

HHS.gov
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And...still....there isn't any evidence that hospitals are artificially inflating numbers to get more money.

 
My friend is a nurse working the covid unit in New York.  She had to go walk a 16 year old through the power of attorney process because his 30 year old mom, who had no underlying conditions and was perfectly healthy, was dying of covid.  She also has a patient who can't even talk anymore and is on a ventilator.  She talks to that patient every day, explaining the sunshine etc, knowing that the patient is going to die at any moment and knowing that patient can't have any visitors.  This stuff is VERY real and she says about 30% of her patients had no underlying health conditions.  I also asked her about sports (she's a avid husker fan) and she doesn't think there will because of a second wave that's going to hit in the winter.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
And...still....there isn't any evidence that hospitals are artificially inflating numbers to get more money.
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Yes.  But now you guys are arguing against a different poster who has not made those claims and who is making a different point but still treating him like he's the one who made the original claim and still arguing against that.

 
Vaccine is not reasonably expected for anywhere between 8 months (slim chances) to three years (65% chances optimistically).    Therefore a vaccine solution is NOT a part of the considerations for either having fall/winter ‘20-‘21 college sports or a major economic restart  nationally.   

From this the discussion becomes real testing of random samplings of the general populations scattered across the country.  We have heard of small studies with questioned validity bases showing the incidence of the virus at ranges of 10 to 60 times the reported case numbers. This is the critical data that will enable the decision makers to assess rationally the true risk of future social activities.  

If the true incidence is somewhere in the lower-middle of that range, then the mortality rate is perhaps 1/25th of the numbers being used widely.   I.e. we likely have 30 million cases with 85,000 “deaths” attributed to the virus.  Of those deaths, a large majority are known to be older patients with other serious health issues making death much more possible. 

IF the forgoing is reasonably close, then the COVID 19 illness is NOT problematic / risky enough (comparable to common flu & pneumonia rates) to justify the disastrous economic & societal shutdowns.  The monetary costs are in the trillions and trillions already with no end in sight. The non financial costs in mental and other health related impacts to everyone around the country are also astronomical.  The long term negatives may be the permanent loss of many millions of jobs, many thousands of businesses and a generation or more of life savings and work product and family structures etc.  

Financially alone 5 trillion $ spent to save even 100,000 lives = $50 million spent per life saved.  

And it is very debatable that we actually saved that many lives in fact nor that 5 trillion is high enough.   

At some point a cost / benefit analysis must be done.  

If we continue shutdowns beyond July 1, the losses and costs will mushroom out of control if not there already.  

This, in my view, is what the discussion must be about.  

 
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