The George Floyd/Black Lives Matter protests and police conduct

BigRedBuster said:
I've watched the video a number of times.  I have a problem with police shooting someone in the back.  BUT....WTF was he thinking?  Police have their guns drawn.  LISTEN TO THEM!!!!! and at least stop, explain to them you were there to break up a fight (witnesses testified to this).

For the police sake, I hope they did everything they could to deescalate the situation before the video was started.  But, since it's not on video, this whole thing is now going to blow up again.
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While I agree, people (I don't mean you) use this all the time to take all blame away from police and put it all on the person. The police are supposed to be the responsible party. Stupidity, belligerence, and running away do not deserve death as a punishment. There are a million other options. 

And I don't think they did everything they could. They had time to use force without guns, while he was unarmed. He was walking calmly to the vehicle. There was time.

 
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Moiraine said:
While I agree, people (I don't mean you) use this all the time to take all blame away from police and put it all on the person. The police are supposed to be the responsible party. Stupidity, belligerence, and running away do not deserve death as a punishment. There are a million other options. 

And I don't think they did everything they could. They had time to use force without guns, while he was unarmed. He was walking calmly to the vehicle. There was time.
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I totally agree and I stated that I have a problem with it.  I also stated at the end that at minimum, someone should have had a taser they could have used instead of a lethal gun.

My biggest questions are:

1) What happened before the video started that caused them all to pull their guns on him?

2) Was there a gun in the car that he could have been reaching for?

 
A lot of discussion around police reform involves appropriate vs. inappropriate use of force.

Would it not be considered appropriate use of force to prevent him from walking back around to the driver side of the vehicle, opening the door and reaching in if everyone's safety was the biggest concern here?

 
Danny Bateman said:
A lot of discussion around police reform involves appropriate vs. inappropriate use of force.

Would it not be considered appropriate use of force to prevent him from walking back around to the driver side of the vehicle, opening the door and reaching in if everyone's safety was the biggest concern here?
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Like tackle him?  That is what I would think about doing.

But then i think that if a dude doesn't seem to care if guns are drawn on him, he might be trying to kill me.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
I've watched the video a number of times.  I have a problem with police shooting someone in the back.  BUT....WTF was he thinking?  Police have their guns drawn.  LISTEN TO THEM!!!!! and at least stop, explain to them you were there to break up a fight (witnesses testified to this).

For the police sake, I hope they did everything they could to deescalate the situation before the video was started.  But, since it's not on video, this whole thing is now going to blow up again.

And....why didn't at least one of them have a taser so they didn't have to use lethal force? (assuming that would have even been appropriate)
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/23/kenosha-police-shooting-video-wisconsin/

The shooting happened after 5 p.m., when officers responded to a domestic incident, police said. Witnesses told the Kenosha News that Blake was trying to break up a fight and that police first attempted to stun him with a Taser.
The video shows neighbors congregated outside as two police officers with their guns drawn followed Blake as he approached the car. As Blake opened the driver’s side door, an officer can be seen tugging at Blake’s white tank top before multiple shots ring out from the police.
 
DevoHusker said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/23/kenosha-police-shooting-video-wisconsin/

The shooting happened after 5 p.m., when officers responded to a domestic incident, police said. Witnesses told the Kenosha News that Blake was trying to break up a fight and that police first attempted to stun him with a Taser.
The video shows neighbors congregated outside as two police officers with their guns drawn followed Blake as he approached the car. As Blake opened the driver’s side door, an officer can be seen tugging at Blake’s white tank top before multiple shots ring out from the police.
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I wonder why the taser didn't work.

 
BigRedBuster said:
I wonder why the taser didn't work.
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Lots of variables could have occurred. Either way, with only this 13 seconds, it does not look good. 

I too would like to see more video from earlier. What happened that made all the cops draw their weapons, and even try (unsuccessfully) to Taze the guy if he is indeed trying to help.

 
Moiraine said:
If he was unarmed, why are their guns drawn? If their guns hadn't been drawn they could have easily subdued him before he got to the vehicle, with pepper spray or batons or by tackling him. 
 

It seems unlikely even if he did have a gun that they would have known it ahead of time, and therefore it doesn't make sense that they're pointing guns at him. 
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That's a really good question that I don't think I've seen an answer for yet. It could be anything from the department's protocols, to something Blake may have said, to some behavior he may have exhibited, to the police completely over-reacting and making a bad decision, etc. That's one thing that's difficult about seeing clips like this as it leaves out a ton of context.

Taking the clip at face value, Blake's reaction is incredibly ill-advised. I think the real question is whether or not the circumstances that led to it were warranted. Hard to say based off of 13-seconds. Maybe he threatened to get something from his car? Maybe he said something like 'I'm done with you all' and tried to leave? We don't know.

 
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Enhance said:
That's a really good question that I don't think I've seen an answer for yet. It could be anything from the department's protocols, to something Blake may have said, to some behavior he may have exhibited, to the police completely over-reacting and making a bad decision, etc. That's one thing that's difficult about seeing clips like this as it leaves out a ton of context.

Taking the clip at face value, Blake's reaction is incredibly ill-advised. I think the real question is whether or not the circumstances that led to it were warranted. Hard to say based off of 13-seconds. Maybe he threatened to get something from his car? Maybe he said something like 'I'm done with you all' and tried to leave? We don't know.
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The moment he threatened to get a weapon, if that happened, was the moment they should have used (non deadly) force.

 
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i don't know...but from watching the video it seems that the guy was either drunk or perhaps dazed from the tazer and might have not been able to understand the situation at the time.    7 bullets to the back does seem  excessive from what i've seen there though.

 
commando said:
i don't know...but from watching the video it seems that the guy was either drunk or perhaps dazed from the tazer and might have not been able to understand the situation at the time.    7 bullets to the back does seem  excessive from what i've seen there though.
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Yeah that's one of the strangest variables about all of this. Without context, walking away from police (who have their weapons drawn) seems like a real bad idea. I realize that a lot of people may feel conditioned to not trust police in these circumstances but I imagine that (statistically speaking) compliance is the safest option.

Shooting seven times also feels excessive (again, without context). The only thing I can think of to justify it would be that Blake was still moving and so the officer kept firing? The fact that it got to that point is still baffling.

 
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