Who should be our starting QB?

[Mavric]

Luke had a pretty good day against Ohio St. himself... I guess to me stats don't always paint the whole picture.  In my opinion Luke made some plays Saturday where he had just enough speed to make the play and I'm not sure Martinez would have. Those plays kept drives alive and led to scores.  And for the record I agree that Luke gets a lot of credit for a positive outcome when the defense did him a lot of favors. I don't think we've seen the last of AM.  It wouldn't even shock me if he started next week.

Martinez has shown over the last 8 games (that he started) he can't make the short passes to keep drives alive. Sure he completes one every now and then - but his short and intermediate pass game was below average. Martinez trying to complete a bubble screen, pass to the flat, or a screen pass to a rb was downright awful. There is no argument Luke was a significant upgrade in this area; in fact, multiple instances (and comments pointing such out from friends as the game was going on) in the last 6 quarters where Luke has made throws which would have been 1-hopped or uncatchable with Martinez in there. 

So if Luke is a noticeable upgrade in some areas, yet we did more poorly overall against a worse defense, it would stand to reason that he must be a significant down-grade in other areas for the offense to perform that much worse.

I agree that it sure seems like Luke is quicker and faster.  But that doesn't explain why Martinez has better rushing stats (from the QB position).

Luke may be better at throwing certain kinds of passes.  But Martinez completed 80% of his passes against Ohio State.  One good game, one bad game.

I'm not trying to argue for Martinez as the starter.  I'm just saying I don't think it's as obvious as some people like to make it seem.  I think the win significantly skews the perception of the performance.  If the defense doesn't come up with the scoop and score and Penn State is able to kick a FG at the end to win, there would be plenty of questions about why we couldn't even put up 300 yards of offense when we put up 442 the week before against a much better defense.  Granted, Luke did put up a decent amount of those yards against Northwestern but that's still a pretty big drop-off.

 

[BigRedBuster]

One thing we did learn is that Scott does not have a bias in favor of Adrian. We learned that he is able to look for help no matter which position commands the assessment. We also learned that he wasn't necessarily wrong in his assessment. Luke is not head and tails better than Adrian and Scott just sticking with his guy. Scott has been accused of this a lot since coming here at various positions and I think he has shown again and again, the best players are on the field, nobody is night and day better and sitting on the bench due to whatever nefarious factors people dream up. We also learned that while Scott can objectively look at QB play, we objectively have 2 average QB's in year 3 and there might be some shade to be thrown there if we are looking for new places to throw it. 

Totally agree.  Fans were looking at a few plays last year from Luke and clamoring for him to start.  Well....Frost was willing to make the change (because he decided to, not because of fan pressure) because he thought it was the best move for the team.  

Changing QBs is hard no matter who the coach is.  It can go fantastic, or it can sew doubt in the team with the leader (QB).  Scott wants to win at Nebraska and he will do whatever it takes to do so.  We saw that this week.  We also saw why Luke isn't head and shoulders better than 2AM and why the change probably hasn't been made before now.

At WR, there's a reason why the young talent isn't on the field.  Scott and Co. is going to put the best players on the field that they think give them the best chance to win.  If the young guns want on the field, learn the plays, learn the system and work your a$$ off.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

An excellent trap question.

Except it's not.

I would expect a player like Jaimes to have the fewest penalties and mistakes on the OL.  He's an upperclassman in his third year with the same coaching.

My expectations would be lower for Piper or Benhart.

As was covered elsewhere, I absolutely expect more issues with execution the more freshman and redshirt freshmen there are on the field at the same time. 

This is a key why the defense is out performing the offense right now.

So while it's the same director in year 3, it really isn't close to the same cast on the offensive side of the ball.

Of course it's a trap question. I'm bored and there you are.

This still leaves the question open: why are there so many inexperienced players on the field in Scott Frost's third year? 

Are you going to sit there and tell me the defense is outperforming the offense because it has more Mike Riley recruits? 

 

[Undone]

Of course it's a trap question. I'm bored and there you are.

This still leaves the question open: why are there so many inexperienced players on the field in Scott Frost's third year? 

Are you going to sit there and tell me the defense is outperforming the offense because it has more Mike Riley recruits? 

I'm fairly sure that in terms of scholarship guys there are more of Riley's upperclassmen on the defense than the offense. Another underrated issue is how much it hurt our offense to lose Maurice Washington and JD Spielman.

Now of course, JD was a Riley guy. But Maurice was a Frost recruit and would have been a junior.

The instant the announcement was out that those two guys were gone, most people seemed to have a "it's no big deal; don't let the door hit you on the a** on the way out" attitude.

That was probably the wrong take - we could really use both of those guys this season.

 

[TheSker]

Of course it's a trap question. I'm bored and there you are.

This still leaves the question open: why are there so many inexperienced players on the field in Scott Frost's third year? 

Are you going to sit there and tell me the defense is outperforming the offense because it has more Mike Riley recruits? 

I'd suggest the golf channel and a whiskey on the rocks to solve the boredom issue.  Or maybe that's what I'm going to do....

And    as has been said quite a bit....Frost's first recruiting class was a dud.

Now.  Golf Channel and whiskey my friend 

 

[gobiggergoredder]

So if Luke is a noticeable upgrade in some areas, yet we did more poorly overall against a worse defense, it would stand to reason that he must be a significant down-grade in other areas for the offense to perform that much worse.

I agree that it sure seems like Luke is quicker and faster.  But that doesn't explain why Martinez has better rushing stats (from the QB position).

Luke may be better at throwing certain kinds of passes.  But Martinez completed 80% of his passes against Ohio State.  One good game, one bad game.

I'm not trying to argue for Martinez as the starter.  I'm just saying I don't think it's as obvious as some people like to make it seem.  I think the win significantly skews the perception of the performance.  If the defense doesn't come up with the scoop and score and Penn State is able to kick a FG at the end to win, there would be plenty of questions about why we couldn't even put up 300 yards of offense when we put up 442 the week before against a much better defense.  Granted, Luke did put up a decent amount of those yards against Northwestern but that's still a pretty big drop-off.

I was in the camp that thought there would be a significant difference with LM.  I got that wrong.  There just wasn’t.  The offense is stale.

I don’t put much into AMs rushing yards.  He gathers huge chunks on scrambles (broken plays).  You can’t build an offense around that.

I think LM should stay the starter, but neither of these guys will return the program to glory.  The upside of LM is he can play other positions (and probably should).  I wouldn’t be surprised if AM is done as a big contributor.

 

[I am I]

I guess what I see is that the only real difference between Luke and Adrian is that Luke has totally infectious energy and positivity that permeates the team. 
 

he made some good plays that got us up pretty big. When we stopped moving the ball and scoring he was still balling out and kept the energy up. 
 

it sucks for Adrian and all the fans that a guy with all the tools on paper didn’t (or hasn’t yet) reached the potential we thought he would. On the other hand, I’m not sure how high Luke’s ceiling is. He could get better and that would make him a good player, not great. Or he could level off and just be an infectious energy, boom/bust type player. 
 

stay with Luke unless he takes a real fast nosedive.  

 

[RedSavage]

I was in the camp that thought there would be a significant difference with LM.  I got that wrong.  There just wasn’t.  The offense is stale.

I don’t put much into AMs rushing yards.  He gathers huge chunks on scrambles (broken plays).  You can’t build an offense around that.

I think LM should stay the starter, but neither of these guys will return the program to glory.  The upside of LM is he can play other positions (and probably should).  I wouldn’t be surprised if AM is done as a big contributor.

I’m not sure I agree.  I think LM could have a pretty high ceiling.  Kid is a hell of an athlete (which comes as no surprise).  Now if this is pretty much who he is as a qb, I agree.  

 

[gobiggergoredder]

I’m not sure I agree.  I think LM could have a pretty high ceiling.  Kid is a hell of an athlete (which comes as no surprise).  Now if this is pretty much who he is as a qb, I agree.  

I wish I could find the interview I saw a while ago, but it had to do with high school QB evaluation by Mike Leech.

My paraphrasing now:

I don’t care what it looks like when you throw or how you get it there.  He was more concerned about your ability to place the ball and how they made the difficult throws. 

My take away was you have it or you don’t.  He couldn’t coach ball placement or timing.

These coaches get too much credit when young QBs step in immediately and too much blame when others can’t consistently make a decent throw.

 

[Mavric]

I'm fairly sure that in terms of scholarship guys there are more of Riley's upperclassmen on the defense than the offense. Another underrated issue is how much it hurt our offense to lose Maurice Washington and JD Spielman.

Riley recruits seeing playing time:

Offense - Stoll, Allen, Jaimes, MFarniok, Wilson

Defense - Stille, Daniels, Thomas, Miller, Domann, Bootle, Dismuke

 

[NebraskaHarry]

Riley recruits seeing playing time:

Offense - Stoll, Allen, Jaimes, MFarniok, Wilson

Defense - Stille, Daniels, Thomas, Miller, Domann, Bootle, Taylor-Britt, Williams, Dismuke, 

Pretty sure Taylor-Britt was Frosts recruit.

 

[RedSavage]

Pretty sure Taylor-Britt was Frosts recruit.

Pretty sure Deontai Williams was as well

 

[Mavric]

Pretty sure Taylor-Britt was Frosts recruit.

Pretty sure Deontai Williams was as well

Yep, my bad on these.  I looked at the offer date and it was 2017 so I was thinking Riley but it was after Riley was gone.  Thanks.

 

[lo country]

IMHO, neither QB has really separated himself from the other. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.  Both can run well as evidenced by their numbers.  I think that Luke "plays faster" but that could be that he doesn't progress through his reads.  He does have an energy that Martinez does not put on display.  Martinez was not "that" guy even his freshman year.  Martinez has a better deep ball, stronger arm and appears better on the run.  Luke is better with the dink and dunk, swing passes, shorter stuff etc....

Both guys seemed to play their best at the start of each game (scripted plays).  I blame some of this on Frost (well a lot of it).  Martinez season 3 has a lot of film, a lot of DC's attention etc...Luke, not so much.  No deep threat hurts Martinez more as he doesn't do the short pass well.  Hurts the running game going against an 11 man box. 

Loss of JD hurts more than I thought.  TBH, I was counting on Wan'dale to slide into that roll with Omar and Betts stepping up, a better OL and a rebuilt running game.  So far Wan'dale is the Swiss army knife and not playing the spoiler roll exploiting defenses...Running game is weak as evidenced by the QB's being our leading rushers....More attempts, yards, YPC etc....

Frost was right about one thing.  AM and Luke are 1a and 1b......I'm still hoping AM 1.0 shows back up.  His speech before PSU shows why he is a captain.  I hope his athleticism returns to back it up.  

 

[suh_fan93]

I'm still hoping AM 1.0 shows back up.  His speech before PSU shows why he is a captain.  I hope his athleticism returns to back it up.  

I don't think anyone is doubting his physical ability but rather his decision making last year and seemingly this year despite a lot of experience as a starter under his belt.  That's been my only problem when 2AM is back there.  I think it has a lot to do with him sometimes missing even the pedestrian throws.