Biden's America

Enhance said:
"Not attainable" is a strong qualifier, but I can think of several that are difficult or rare to achieve without a four year degree that cost more than $30,000. And to @knapplc's point, there are quite a few necessary ones that are part of a high functioning society.

1) Doctor/surgeon/etc.

2) Journalist/reporter (I've only met a few journalists in my life that didn't go to a four year college, and I've been in the media industry for almost a decade. They're rare.)

3) Lawyers

4) Most engineering and advanced engineering fields, architects

5) Teachers/college professors

6) Most marketing professionals

7) Actuaries

I'm all for pushing people to trade schools or community colleges and the like, but anybody wanting the above mentioned either has to a) hope they're really smart and get it all paid for or b) pay out their a$$ and incur monstrous debt. Some are fortunate enough to pay it off within 5-10 years of employment. Others are not, as we all know.

Journalists might be the most abused of that group from a salary perspective. Often can't get a job without a four year degree in broadcasting journalism, and then an employer wants to pay $25-$30k right out of school. I had friends in 2013 getting hired at $20,000 in Lincoln, Neb., to be a journalist.
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1) I didn’t say COST.  I said max debt.  
2) Doctors—this is probably the most effective debt anyone can take out.  Guaranteed high income.  If worried about debt, many programs to have med school debt forgiven by working in rural or in need areas.  This is nonsense to say Medical School Debt should be blanket forgiven.  
3). Surgeons—see above but on steroids.  Guaranteed $300,000 minimum income.  Again, some of the most effective debt one can take out.  Nonsense to say otherwise. 
3). Journalists I will pass on.  Know nothing about the job prospects or pay.  
4). Lawyers. This one can be tricky because of the wide range of income in the law field.  However, 2 yrs community college, 2 years of state school and 3 years of law school for an in demand high paying job that is in demand anyone in the country, (just pass the state bar) is a pretty good investment in ones future and gives plenty of income to pay off the debt (though it shouldn’t cost so much to attend law school.  Biased here because I have three brothers that are lawyers.  And My parents didn’t contribute to anyone of our post HS educations.  All do very well.  
4). Engineering—one of the most in demand jobs (generally speaking about engineering) and very good pay post college.  Nonsense to think these people would have issues paying off school debt if they went the state school route.  Cheapest way is 2 yrs CC and 2 yrs State school.  Work/family contributions if they are able. 
5). Teachers are the ones that I think have the hardest time, because of the income but if you know you want to be a teacher then choose your college wisely.  This one is no different than my daughter who will have relatively the same income as a teacher after she graduates from KState.  She worked all through college and in the summers, took CC on line courses while at Kstate for gen ed requirements and went four years for under $60,000 living expenses included.  She will graduate with zero student loans because she was smart with the school choice, worked her a$$ off and did well in school.   
6). I have a marketing degree and management minor.  This is a non starter argument for me as I make a good living had no parental support for college and had no issues paying student loans. 
7). Actuaries can start off making just shy of six figures right out of school.   
 

Outside of post graduate school, every scenario you mentioned can be done for under $30k in student loans and every one but teachers will have zero problems finding jobs to pay that debt.  
Monstrous debt is up to the person choosing the school.  Don’t be a moron and choose a school you can’t afford.  

 
Archy1221 said:
1) I didn’t say COST.  I said max debt.  
2) Doctors—this is probably the most effective debt anyone can take out.  Guaranteed high income.  If worried about debt, many programs to have med school debt forgiven by working in rural or in need areas.  This is nonsense to say Medical School Debt should be blanket forgiven.  
3). Surgeons—see above but on steroids.  Guaranteed $300,000 minimum income.  Again, some of the most effective debt one can take out.  Nonsense to say otherwise. 
3). Journalists I will pass on.  Know nothing about the job prospects or pay.  
4). Lawyers. This one can be tricky because of the wide range of income in the law field.  However, 2 yrs community college, 2 years of state school and 3 years of law school for an in demand high paying job that is in demand anyone in the country, (just pass the state bar) is a pretty good investment in ones future and gives plenty of income to pay off the debt (though it shouldn’t cost so much to attend law school.  Biased here because I have three brothers that are lawyers.  And My parents didn’t contribute to anyone of our post HS educations.  All do very well.  
4). Engineering—one of the most in demand jobs (generally speaking about engineering) and very good pay post college.  Nonsense to think these people would have issues paying off school debt if they went the state school route.  Cheapest way is 2 yrs CC and 2 yrs State school.  Work/family contributions if they are able. 
5). Teachers are the ones that I think have the hardest time, because of the income but if you know you want to be a teacher then choose your college wisely.  This one is no different than my daughter who will have relatively the same income as a teacher after she graduates from KState.  She worked all through college and in the summers, took CC on line courses while at Kstate for gen ed requirements and went four years for under $60,000 living expenses included.  She will graduate with zero student loans because she was smart with the school choice, worked her a$$ off and did well in school.   
6). I have a marketing degree and management minor.  This is a non starter argument for me as I make a good living had no parental support for college and had no issues paying student loans. 
7). Actuaries can start off making just shy of six figures right out of school.   
 

Outside of post graduate school, every scenario you mentioned can be done for under $30k in student loans and every one but teachers will have zero problems finding jobs to pay that debt.  
Monstrous debt is up to the person choosing the school.  Don’t be a moron and choose a school you can’t afford.  
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You're high. $30k will get you exactly zero percent of a college degree these days. Maybe...maybe, if you pay the other $50 to $100k plus up front out if pocket. 

This is not an argument in favor of forgiving loans. Just a reality check on the cost of an education. I know, just had one graduate, and she did it in only 2.5 years.

 
JJ Husker said:
If we need those fields to have a functioning society then the much more sensical solution is to make education more affordable. And while we’re at it we could modify and incentivize how society actually does hire workers. There are way too many jobs that require 4 year degrees with no basis in the reality of what is actually required for the job. It’s an elitist system that directly subsidizes higher education for self perpetuating reasons. The only mutually agreed upon thing in this discussion I am aware of is the straightforward loan agreement of give me this money and I promise to pay it back. There is no proverbial gun being held to people’s heads to sign that agreement.
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So you basically say students are getting f#&%ed, but f#&% them they made a choice. Then when people without college degrees get paid $13/hr like the business owners in this thread say they pay their workers and ask for more money, then its if youre not happy get a higher paying job. Conservatives need to make up their damn mind. Higher paying jobs require college degrees plain and simple. So its either get paid s#!t or be in excruciating debt. Its a f#&%ed up system. 

 
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JJ Husker said:
You're high. $30k will get you exactly zero percent of a college degree these days. Maybe...maybe, if you pay the other $50 to $100k plus up front out if pocket. 

This is not an argument in favor of forgiving loans. Just a reality check on the cost of an education. I know, just had one graduate, and she did it in only 2.5 years.
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Once again, you are not reading what I write.   I said debt NOT COST

 
JJ Husker said:
You're high. $30k will get you exactly zero percent of a college degree these days. Maybe...maybe, if you pay the other $50 to $100k plus up front out if pocket. 

This is not an argument in favor of forgiving loans. Just a reality check on the cost of an education. I know, just had one graduate, and she did it in only 2.5 years.
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2.5 years!  NERD!  Hahah

 
JJ Husker said:
You're high. $30k will get you exactly zero percent of a college degree these days. Maybe...maybe, if you pay the other $50 to $100k plus up front out if pocket. 

This is not an argument in favor of forgiving loans. Just a reality check on the cost of an education. I know, just had one graduate, and she did it in only 2.5 years.
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I have one graduating in May.  Where did yours go?  
Mine is at KState.  All in for a year of school, including living is roughly $17,000.  Times 4 is $68,000 and that’s paying full freight.   No scholly, no CC, no living at home if it’s possible. Who can’t work While going to school during the year and make $12,000?  I know mine did.  Times 4 is $48,000 pre tax and tax bill at that income is next to nothing. Now we get to the hard part.   68,000-48,000= $20,000 in debt.  And that’s paying full freight.  Go to CC your first two years and you are under $10,000 in debt MAX. 
 

There is your Reality Check. 

 
Frott Scost said:
. So its either get paid s#!t or be in excruciating debt
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It’s not an or situation.  Just be intelligent on where you spend your college money.  
 

At the same time, college costs are getting too expensive relatively speaking and we as a country should re-examine what constitutes requirements for a degree.  2 years of fluff classes are not needed. 

 
Frott Scost said:
Well educate me. Name some high paying jobs, we will say 60k that only requires high school diploma. 
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But for real, I don't know for sure but I would guess welding, plumbing, electrictrician , real estate, fireman, cop, machinist, and sales job (if you are good at it), message board host, military?  

I don't know, that is all I can think of.

 
Archy1221 said:
It’s not an or situation.  Just be intelligent on where you spend your college money.  
 

At the same time, college costs are getting too expensive relatively speaking and we as a country should re-examine what constitutes requirements for a degree.  2 years of fluff classes are not needed. 
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Not every situation is the same. My wifes parents arent the greatest with money. Her dads a lawyer and her moms high maintenance. They dont know how to save money or pay debt. They told my wife they would pay for her undergraduate college at Colorado. They paid the least anount possible and interest accrued. She wanted to change careers so she went back to college for masters in school counseling. Got denied from UNO (cheaper) got accepted to Creighton (more expensive). She got tons of scholarships to help with masters but still owed $20,000.
 

Long story short, she started having medical issues the past few years, just went to Mayo Clinic this past week. Weve hit out of pocket maximum three years in a row. $5000 on top of premiums just for her medical issues. Plus, her dad lost his job during pandemic so they cant pay her loans anymore and since they are in her name, the debt goes to her. Her undergraduate and graduate adds up to $54,000 so $34,000 which was promised to be paid her by her parents goes to us. I also decided to go back to school to get MBA in healthcare. If I would have known she had that much undergraduate debt and her parents woukd back out of their deal, I would have waited. So now we have medical debt (no faukt of her own), her college debt (not her fault that her parents made bad decisions on her behalf and now cant pay their portion) and my college debt, which I was on pace to get undergraduate paid off in 6 years before going back, so I have been responsible paying back my debt and havent let interest accrue. We had to move in with my parents when she started having medical issues because the debt was too much and we were drowning in it and because her program required her to do a FT non-paid intership, so her income for that year was limited as her other FT job paid crud. We are trying our best, but the medical debt and college debt now will not allow us to start a family or move out for awhile. 
 

Not every situation is the same and thats my anecdotal reality check on life not being a black and white issue. 

 
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