Censorship

4 minutes ago, Enhance said:

IMO, I don't think the 'woke' folk have a problem with displaying diversity. What they have a problem with is media or content that they believe is based on unfair stereotypes. Some people would argue depicting a Chinese person with a cone hat and chopsticks is a simple-minded way of generalizing an entire group of people based on specific elements of their culture.

A rough analogy would be illustrating an American by drawing them with obesity and a rifle. Certainly representative of elements of our society, but not representative of the whole.

My big issue with things like this isn't necessarily the actual material, though. Is the image offensive and stereotypical? Sure. I could see why someone would think that. My problem is that there's often a huge ego and morality issue happening with the woke culture. It's not always about activism and creating change; it's about being right and never being compromised. It's about extricating things from society that you don't agree with, regardless of what other people think, because they're not as 'woke' as you.

President Obama hits the nail on the head with his perception of woke culture in this clip. I linked the clip at the good part but the whole 2 minute video is worth a listen:

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Meh...not buying it.  And, your analogy is off base.  That would be depicting Americans in a negative light.  A good analogy would be depicting Americans in a cow boy hat and boots.  And, I would bet that the vast majority of Chinese actually do use or have used chop sticks.

This is nothing more than being over sensitive with something that really doesn't mean much.  

What I'm guessing is that some Chinese Americans are the ones upset about it.  Meanwhile, the book isn't trying to depict Chinese Americans.  They are depicting Chinese people in China.

 
BigRedBuster said:
Meh...not buying it.  And, your analogy is off base.  That would be depicting Americans in a negative light.  A good analogy would be depicting Americans in a cow boy hat and boots.  And, I would bet that the vast majority of Chinese actually do use or have used chop sticks.
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I agree, that's a better analogy than the one I gave.

This is nothing more than being over sensitive with something that really doesn't mean much.
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For the most part, I agree. I don't think this is as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be, particularly since the book was published in freakin' 1937. This situation has an air of judging history based on modern day standards.

What I'm guessing is that some Chinese Americans are the ones upset about it.  Meanwhile, the book isn't trying to depict Chinese Americans.  They are depicting Chinese people in China.
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This, I don't know. I have often found that the biggest and loudest voices behind these kinds of movements don't even come from the people who are the subject of the 'offensive' materials. It's often people who think something is offensive and try to fight the battle on their behalf.

As an example, I've seen videos on social media of American influencers/idiots "reacting" to other Americans wearing Kimonos and shaming them for it as cultural appropriation. A lot of Japanese people have actually said they like when other cultures where kimonos because it feels like they're trying to take part in their culture and share a common experience.

 
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Enhance said:
This, I don't know. I have often found that the biggest and loudest voices behind these kinds of movements don't even come from the people who are the subject of the 'offensive' materials. It's often people who think something is offensive and try to fight the battle on their behalf.
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This captures a lot of what I believe to be true in cases like this. 

 
This really is a pretty interesting situation. Dr. Seuss himself acknowledged his past history with racism, and had already modified 'And to Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street' more than 40 years ago. Originally he called the character in question a "Chinaman," a name which has deep roots in bigotry. 

Scholarly works have been written about the racist tropes in 'The Cat in the Hat,' many of which I had never noticed before. Geisel's past as a caricaturist, especially his work during World War II in which he depicted Japanese Americans in pretty awful stereotypes, have been concerning throughout his career.

Then, in 2017, three children's book authors refused to appear at the Dr. Seuss Museum for an event because they objected to the "...jarring racial stereotype of a Chinese man, who is depicted with chopsticks, a pointed hat, and slanted slit eyes. We find this caricature of ‘the Chinaman’ deeply hurtful, and have concerns about children’s exposure to it." 

That action, along with other discussions about racially inappropriate depictions in other books, prompted the publisher to discuss the controversy with experts and educators, and they ultimately came up with this list.  

Here's the statement by the publisher:

Today, on Dr. Seuss’s Birthday, Dr. Seuss Enterprises celebrates reading and also our mission of supporting all children and families with messages of hope, inspiration, inclusion, and friendship.

We are committed to action.  To that end, Dr. Seuss Enterprises, working with a panel of experts, including educators, reviewed our catalog of titles and made the decision last year to cease publication and licensing of the following titles:  And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street, If I Ran the Zoo, McElligot’s Pool, On Beyond Zebra!, Scrambled Eggs Super!, and The Cat’s Quizzer.  These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong.

Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’s catalog represents and supports all communities and families.
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Enhance said:
A rough analogy would be illustrating an American by drawing them with obesity and a rifle. Certainly representative of elements of our society, but not representative of the whole.
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Media everywhere do exactly that and get praised for it.  And as BRB said, it's fine to portray the American stereotype.

BigRedBuster said:
What I'm guessing is that some Chinese Americans are the ones upset about it.  Meanwhile, the book isn't trying to depict Chinese Americans.  They are depicting Chinese people in China.
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I doubt it.  Cancel culture is driven by a largely white upper class.  Often they have to work hard to find a non-white person who will say he's offended. 

 
Notre Dame Joe said:
I wouldn't worry too much.  It is hard if not impossible to find [much] 21st Century suppression of left wing speech because the Left controls the morality in Western countries and decides what is and isn't true or hateful.  Not so in other countries.

I will now pause to field some cherry-picked obscure incidents of left wing censorship.  
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You didn't want to play so I will take your turn.

A total of 1 liberal has been cancelled recently. She alleges that it was over mean tweets.   Ironically she does not believe in cancel culture.  


Dr. Lora Burnett on Twitter: "While you're here... No, this isn't "cancel culture"; there's no such thing. This is *government* retaliation for free speech, which is illegal and actionable. wrote about it here: https://t.co/oSN54gJTXw" / Twitter

 
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BigRedBuster said:
Because it's a stupid made up snowflake issue by Republicans who are trying their best to act like they have uncovered some deep dark secret in our society.
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It's Intolerance on full display by the liberals.  Denying it is the equivalent of saying there was no anti-semitism in World War 2.

Speaking of which, Dr Seuss banned from Ebay, Mein Kampf and Che Guerrtshirtguy still okay. 

 
Notre Dame Joe said:
It's Intolerance on full display by the liberals.  Denying it is the equivalent of saying there was no anti-semitism in World War 2.

Speaking of which, Dr Seuss banned from Ebay, Mein Kampf and Che Guerrtshirtguy still okay. 
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And Republicans COMPLETELY ignore that they do the exact same thing and these things have happened since the beginning of time.  Stop being fooled by the right wing propaganda that this is something unique to liberals.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, conservatives still are offended and mad and proud they canceled Collin Kaeparnick.  As just one example.

And....somehow you forget that your dear leader practices this phenomena of "cancel culture" constantly.  You probably have forgotten his call to boycott Good Year.  Or how about all the conservatives that refuse now to buy Yette coolers?  Or how about the ones that refuse to watch any NFL or NBA because....God forbid....someone peacefully protests.

Again....stop falling for the propaganda.

 
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On 3/3/2021 at 10:37 AM, Enhance said:

IMO, I don't think the 'woke' folk have a problem with displaying diversity. What they have a problem with is media or content that they believe is based on unfair stereotypes. Some people would argue depicting a Chinese person with a cone hat and chopsticks is a simple-minded way of generalizing an entire group of people based on specific elements of their culture.

A rough analogy would be illustrating an American by drawing them with obesity and a rifle. Certainly representative of elements of our society, but not representative of the whole.

My big issue with things like this isn't necessarily the actual material, though. Is the image offensive and stereotypical? Sure. I could see why someone would think that. My problem is that there's often a huge ego and morality issue happening with the woke culture. It's not always about activism and creating change; it's about being right and never being compromised. It's about extricating things from society that you don't agree with, regardless of what other people think, because they're not as 'woke' as you.

President Obama hits the nail on the head with his perception of woke culture in this clip. I linked the clip at the good part but the whole 2 minute video is worth a listen:

Click to expand...


"Woke" people seem to absolutely have a problem with white people partaking in, or providing commentary on, diversity or other cultures. Meanwhile, white folks, specifically southern white people, are routinely mocked in cartoons, movies, comedic material, etc. And I don't have a problem with that in general, but the double standard in that regard is what I find mildly laughable. 

President Obama has another clip where I speaks on wokeness/cancel culture and it's a spot on take.... Maybe I can find it.

 
BigRedBuster said:
And Republicans COMPLETELY ignore that they do the exact same thing and these things have happened since the beginning of time.  Stop being fooled by the right wing propaganda that this is something unique to liberals.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, conservatives still are offended and mad and proud they canceled Collin Kaeparnick.  As just one example.

And....somehow you forget that your dear leader practices this phenomena of "cancel culture" constantly.  You probably have forgotten his call to boycott Good Year.  Or how about all the conservatives that refuse now to buy Yette coolers?  Or how about the ones that refuse to watch any NFL or NBA because....God forbid....someone peacefully protests.

Again....stop falling for the propaganda.
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The Colin Kap who refused a 1 year contract so he could launch his career in social justice or the Corporation that had to make exactly zero changes?  

I challenged people to find a conservative corollary to liberal censorship this week and no one did. 

BigRedBuster said:
LOL....if you search Dr. Seuss Books on Ebay, there's actually 8,729 listings.

If they are banning his books, they really suck at it.

@Notre Dame Joe  Stop falling for the propaganda.
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The British newspaper The Sun and multiple media outlets are all propaganda? 

 
Notre Dame Joe said:
The Colin Kap who refused a 1 year contract so he could launch his career in social justice or the Corporation that had to make exactly zero changes?  

I challenged people to find a conservative corollary to liberal censorship this week and no one did. 

The British newspaper The Sun and multiple media outlets are all propaganda? 
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Lol....so, examples have been shown you and you just don’t want to accept them.  
 

Were the reports true?   Or were they total BS?

 
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