The Right-Wing Disinformation Machine

The past few pages are a great analogy of our government.  It’s ridiculous!  People are more worried about being right than being productive.

We are posting facts about one group having more single families.

We are posting about arrests among certain groups at alarmingly higher rates.

School punishments being unequal.

On and on and on…

No one is disputing these problems and fully accepts the stats for the most part.  But instead of discussing the problems, folks are hung up on if they should be qualified as race related or Socio-economic.  Does it actually matter? How is categorizing these issues going to help at all?

 
Archy1221 said:
Distracted from what? The inflation that killed everyone’s raises and tax breaks?  The abysmal foreign policy?  The border disaster?  A President who falls asleep on the World stage and can’t seem to put coherent thoughts together?  Congress trying to swindle the people by putting together a bill and costing it out over 10 years but having the benefits expire in 4-5 years?  Hmmmm…good thing we aren’t thinking about those I guess. 
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Nice to have Republicans engaged and paying attention to politics again instead of just blindly asserting that anything Orange Man does is great!

Some economic slowdown is hard to avoid, especially during a supply chain crisis caused by a once in a generation worldwide pandemic (that the last president ignored). Which Biden policies in particular do you think led to inflation?

Foreign policy? Man, I'll take a bungled withdrawal from Afghanistan (a good thing, long-term) vs. being Putin's lapdog and kissing Kim Jong Un's ring any day. Trump was toxic as hell for our foreign relations and isolationism is stupid.

The border crisis... that was going on under Trump? Why didn't he fix it?

Do we even need to go on about how much Trump's schedule revolved around Executive Time (watching Fox News) and golf trips to his resorts? Did you ever hear that guy riff off prompter?

See, I can play this game too.

The point is the conservative media fixates on red herrings like CRT because their actual platform isn't very popular with a lot of their voters.

 
Archy1221 said:
I don’t believe it does exist anymore.

...

There are individually racist people, and most likely will have them for quite some time.  Some of those people run things.   That’s not systemic racism.  
 

It’s harder for poor people than rich people, but that’s not systemic racism.  
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Some easy examples of systemic racism below:

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Here's a study by the university of michigan in charging disparities between black and white people (controlling for variables like criminal record, history, crime rates, and so on. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1985377

Using rich data linking federal cases from arrest through sentencing, we assess the contribution of prosecutors' initial charging decisions to large observed black-white disparities in sentence length. Pre-charge characteristics, including arrest offense and criminal history, can explain about 80% of these disparities, but substantial gaps remain across the distribution. On average, blacks receive almost 10% longer sentences than comparable whites arrested for the same crimes. At least half this gap can be explained by initial charging choices, particularly the filing of charges carrying mandatory minimum sentences. Prosecutors are, ceteris paribus, almost twice as likely to file such charges against blacks.


 


....


 


Black defendants face significantly more severe charges than whites even after controlling for criminal behavior (arrest offense, multiple-defendant case structure, and criminal history), observed defendant characteristics (e.g., age, education), defense counsel type, district, county economic characteristics, and crime rates. Unexplained racial disparities exist across the charge- severity distribution, especially at the high end. The most striking disparities are found in the use of charges that carry non-zero statutory minimum sentences.”
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Don't have a link handy for this one, but am aware of a stat that the New Jersey turnpike has 15% black drivers, who break traffic laws at the same rates as white folks, but account for 40% of stops and 75% of arrests.

 
Lorewarn said:
Some easy examples of systemic racism below:

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Here's a study by the university of michigan in charging disparities between black and white people (controlling for variables like criminal record, history, crime rates, and so on. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1985377

View attachment 19101

Don't have a link handy for this one, but am aware of a stat that the New Jersey turnpike has 15% black drivers, who break traffic laws at the same rates as white folks, but account for 40% of stops and 75% of arrests.
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The weed data….the self reported data from the Household survey should be taken with a big grain of salt. Studies have been done that show Blacks self report weed usage at a much lower rate than their actual usage vs white’s.  
 

Questions I would ask about the arrest data….1) where were arrests made (on street, in household, at school, etc) 2) data on where weed is actually smoked by race (on street hanging out, in household only, etc..)  3) This one would be hard to do but data on how often weed users by race carry around their weed even when they aren’t using or don’t plan on using in the immediacy.  I ask this question because it was quite different between races while I was in college.  That’s obviously only one college and amongst mostly a football team and some other general population students so it can’t be extrapolated buts it brings up the question. 
 

I’ve never smoked marijuana and only been around it during college years but if people are more likely to be carrying it around and using it in public settings, one would think they would be more likely to be arrested for it.  
 

 
Archy1221 said:
The weed data….the self reported data from the Household survey should be taken with a big grain of salt. Studies have been done that show Blacks self report weed usage at a much lower rate than their actual usage vs white’s.  
 

Questions I would ask about the arrest data….1) where were arrests made (on street, in household, at school, etc) 2) data on where weed is actually smoked by race (on street hanging out, in household only, etc..)  3) This one would be hard to do but data on how often weed users by race carry around their weed even when they aren’t using or don’t plan on using in the immediacy.  I ask this question because it was quite different between races while I was in college.  That’s obviously only one college and amongst mostly a football team and some other general population students so it can’t be extrapolated buts it brings up the question. 
 

I’ve never smoked marijuana and only been around it during college years but if people are more likely to be carrying it around and using it in public settings, one would think they would be more likely to be arrested for it.  
 
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Do those studies give any insights as to why they don’t feel safe enough to self report?

I have no reason to not believe you.  So I will. So we agree that blacks are more hesitant to admit usage.  Why would that be?

 
funhusker said:
Do those studies give any insights as to why they don’t feel safe enough to self report?

I have no reason to not believe you.  So I will. So we agree that blacks are more hesitant to admit usage.  Why would that be?
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Give me a few to find that study for you.  I believe it has a paragraph or two on that particular question 

 
Archy1221 said:
The weed data….the self reported data from the Household survey should be taken with a big grain of salt. Studies have been done that show Blacks self report weed usage at a much lower rate than their actual usage vs white’s.  
 

Questions I would ask about the arrest data….1) where were arrests made (on street, in household, at school, etc) 2) data on where weed is actually smoked by race (on street hanging out, in household only, etc..)  3) This one would be hard to do but data on how often weed users by race carry around their weed even when they aren’t using or don’t plan on using in the immediacy.  I ask this question because it was quite different between races while I was in college.  That’s obviously only one college and amongst mostly a football team and some other general population students so it can’t be extrapolated buts it brings up the question. 
 

I’ve never smoked marijuana and only been around it during college years but if people are more likely to be carrying it around and using it in public settings, one would think they would be more likely to be arrested for it.  
 
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Let's even, for the sake of argument, excuse away all of the arrest disparities based on race. The sentencing disparities are still immense.

Similar race/ethnicity disparities pertained to MJ misdemeanor sale. Blacks with no prior arrests (0.9%) or one prior arrest (4.3%) were nearly twice as likely to be sentenced to jail as their white counterparts (0.4% and 2.3%, respectively). Blacks with 3–9 arrests (16%) were more likely to be sentenced to jail than their white (13%) counterparts. Hispanic arrestees had rates in between those of their black and white counterparts. Just like MPV arrests, black MJ misdemeanor sale arrestees (19%) were less than half as likely to have no prior arrests as their white (46%) counterparts and three times as likely to have 10 or more arrests (27% versus 9%). Again, the rates for Hispanic arrestees tended to be between those of their black and white counterparts.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2561263/?__hstc=9292970.b0896ec071bae4c3d40c40ec7d57cd5d.1412640000163.1412640000164.1412640000165.1&__hssc=9292970.1.1412640000166&__hsfp=1314462730

Federal courts imposed prison sentences on black men that were 19% longer than those imposed on similarly situated white men between 2011 and 2016, reports the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC). In addition, federal prison sentences for Hispanic men were 5% longer than those for their white counterparts. “In Demographic Differences in Sentencing: An Update to the 2012 Booker Report,” USSC researchers examine sentencing disparities by controlling for legally relevant factors such as the type of offense and criminal history—including a violent criminal history. 


A major driver of the disparity, the report contends, is the frequency and extent to which federal judges depart below sentencing guidelines to determine sentences for white defendants. But other researchers have shown that “judges’ choices do not appear to be principally responsible” for the racial disparity in federal sentences, finding instead that the source of the problem is prosecutorial charging decisions—specifically, the decision to bring a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence.
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https://www.sentencingproject.org/news/5695/

 
Literally no one is shocked by this.


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