Russia

commando said:
check their stock market and the value of a ruble today compared to before sanctions.  the effects have been harsh and fast.
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I meant for sanctions to work politically and change policy it takes a long time.  The immediate harm to Russia's banking system is not stopping the armored convoy they sent to Kiev.

 
NM11046 said:
For the life of me I just can't imagine the US rallying together in a time of war like this ... can you imagine?
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You don't remember the post-9/11 period? Too bad the gift of sky-high presidential approval ratings that almost automatically followed were wasted on Bush...

 
TGHusker said:
Perhaps the fighter jets that arrived will have an impact on those convoys 
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i don't know how fighter jets will help unless they are jets that the ukranian pilots have training for, have airfields to use them from, crews to rearm, refuel, and repair them, and have ordnance for them.     drones would be very effective if that is what they mean by fighter jets

 
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Notre Dame Joe said:
Sanctions require a lot of time to work, if they work at all, Russia seems to always be under sanctions. They are  ineffective after the war started.  But the media spoke of economic sanctions like they were a military manuever.
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I wouldn’t call them ineffective. Sure they aren’t direct military intervention but sanctions, to the extent that are being done now, could be very effective and possibly relatively quickly.

They might not dissuade Putin right away. He would have to care about his country and people more then he appears to. But I guarantee they matter to his people, the countries business interests, the rich oligarchs and yes even the Russian mob. If you think he’s not feeling the pressure to back down from all those groups and the international community? They absolutely could stop an advancing column if the right people get to him or if he ever grew a conscience.

Since you seem less than impressed with the sanctions, what is your solution?

 
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commando said:
i don't know how fighter jets will help unless they are jets that the ukranian pilots have training for, have airfields to use them from, crews to rearm, refuel, and repair them, and have ordnance for them.     drones would be very effective if that is what they mean by fighter jets
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The tweets say they are sending Russian migs that they are familiar with.  But there does not seem to be any video of a Ukrainian air strike.  That armored convoy looks like a prime target for any air force.

JJ Husker said:
I wouldn’t call them ineffective. Sure they aren’t direct military intervention but sanctions, to the extent that are being done now, could be very effective and possibly relatively quickly.

They might not dissuade Putin right away. He would have to care about his country and people more then he appears to. But I guarantee they matter to his people, the countries business interests, the rich oligarchs and yes even the Russian mob. If you think he’s not feeling the pressure to back down from all those groups and the international community? They absolutely could stop an advancing column if the right people get to him or if he ever grew a conscience.

Since you seem less than impressed with the sanctions, what is your solution?
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Russia gets her money from selling oil.  That oil must travel a great distance.  What if a central nexus or two suddenly fell into a sinkhole?

 
Toe said:
You don't remember the post-9/11 period? Too bad the gift of sky-high presidential approval ratings that almost automatically followed were wasted on Bush...
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Oh yes - I guess there were folks signing up to serve - thank you for the reminder.  Just cant even imagine that in this day and age of divide, unless there was taunting involved and pointing out those who DONT sign up as libs and etc.

 
When the slaughter of innocent civilians gets even worse and the world see it in real time how do we respond?  What is the threshold before we use airpower to take out Russian weapons and positions? 

Either way engaging the Russians directly now or waiting for the massacre of Ukrainian civilians is a choice that has no clear answer to the ramifications now.  

The only other option is that somehow the hardware the international community is sending is enough, is used skillfully, and it stems the tide.  

In the Vietnam war the CIA trained and supplied the Hmong in Laos with fighter jets and tactical support.  The Hmong became master pilots and held the NVA to a standstill until the politics were such that every bombing run had to be first approved from Washington which could take 48 hours.  Different time and situation but hopefully we're not that assisine today but who knows.  The CIA should be, and probably is, hip deep in this conflict training, supplying, providing logistical support, and advising.

 
Scarlet said:
When the slaughter of innocent civilians gets even worse and the world see it in real time how do we respond?  What is the threshold before we use airpower to take out Russian weapons and positions? 

Either way engaging the Russians directly now or waiting for the massacre of Ukrainian civilians is a choice that has no clear answer to the ramifications now.  

The only other option is that somehow the hardware the international community is sending is enough, is used skillfully, and it stems the tide.  

In the Vietnam war the CIA trained and supplied the Hmong in Laos with fighter jets and tactical support.  The Hmong became master pilots and held the NVA to a standstill until the politics were such that every bombing run had to be first approved from Washington which could take 48 hours.  Different time and situation but hopefully we're not that assisine today but who knows.  The CIA should be, and probably is, hip deep in this conflict training, supplying, providing logistical support, and advising.
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The worry is that any direct EU/NATO involvement in the conflict would give Putin the excuse to launch nukes. Analysts are pretty much in agreement that he'll do it.

He's at the end of his career and he's a megalomaniac enough to feel like the world has no purpose without him in it.

 
commando said:
i don't know how fighter jets will help unless they are jets that the ukranian pilots have training for, have airfields to use them from, crews to rearm, refuel, and repair them, and have ordnance for them.     drones would be very effective if that is what they mean by fighter jets
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Older Russian MIGs  from other former Soviet bloc states like Poland.  I hope they are able to bomb the hell out of that 40 mile convey on the way back from Poland. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/28/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-in-poland-to-pick-up-donated-fighter-jets-00012560

 
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