Weird Time for Christians

[jaws]

You mean to tell me  "TWO Corinthians " isn't a Christian?  Knock me over with a feather  :sarcasm    By their fruits you'll know them.

Of course I hear people say "We didn't elect a National Pastor".  Character doesn't matter.  Same People 20 years before: "Clinton is an immoral leader".  Character matters. 

Character always matters in my book as well as competency.  Trump lacked both. 

I understand this is an old reference to Trump. I'm not going to comment on people's faith and say it is real or not, but depending on your background or where you are from, Two Corinthians might be a common way of referencing 2 Corinthians. I am not going to get mad about how someone might reference scripture. However, you are right, you can tell by their fruits (even though the world might not value the fruit). 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

If you have an issue with NPR, take it up with the fact-checkers. You won't find many news sources more careful about vetting what they report, or more proactive and respectful of the various sources they interview.

If you sensed NPR reporters sounding upset and concerned at the prospect of Donald Trump's election in 2016 ---- well you caught 'em red  handed. They are intelligent humans with an ear to the ground and a grasp of history, and they understood just how dark the coming years were about to get.

They were, of course, right, although in truth things turned out worse than most imagined. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

If you have an issue with NPR, take it up with the fact-checkers. You won't find many news sources more careful about vetting what they report, or more proactive and respectful of the various sources they interview.

If you sensed NPR reporters sounding upset and concerned at the prospect of Donald Trump's election in 2016 ---- well you caught 'em red  handed. They are intelligent humans with an ear to the ground and a grasp of history, and they understood just how dark the coming years were about to get.

They were, of course, right, although in truth things turned out worse than most imagined. 

:yeah

 

[knapplc]

Why people believe NPR, I will never know.  But people do for sure.

Which news sources do you believe?

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

What did Christianity get wrong about Jesus?  In your view.

That Jesus is actually a slippery slope to social justice, and the United States is Rome. 

 

[TGHusker]

I understand this is an old reference to Trump. I'm not going to comment on people's faith and say it is real or not, but depending on your background or where you are from, Two Corinthians might be a common way of referencing 2 Corinthians. I am not going to get mad about how someone might reference scripture. However, you are right, you can tell by their fruits (even though the world might not value the fruit). 

Yes, I hear what you say.  I've heard since that some people say TWO Corinthians.  It was a big deal when it occurred as few people in the evangelical world would say it that way.    And it is up to God, who views the heart, to judge someone's faith. 

 

[TGHusker]

If you have an issue with NPR, take it up with the fact-checkers. You won't find many news sources more careful about vetting what they report, or more proactive and respectful of the various sources they interview.

If you sensed NPR reporters sounding upset and concerned at the prospect of Donald Trump's election in 2016 ---- well you caught 'em red  handed. They are intelligent humans with an ear to the ground and a grasp of history, and they understood just how dark the coming years were about to get.

They were, of course, right, although in truth things turned out worse than most imagined. 

Good points.  I was a conservative talk show junkie until the 2016 election.  But even at that, I never voted for Trump.  You didn't have to be a moderate or liberal to see what was coming but you had to have your eyes wide open.  I then turned to NPR and it was a refreshing change.  I thought there was actual news presented in a clear cut way.  But to that, I would add that I would like to see more conservative ideas having their expression on NPR. It isn't perfect and I think every news source has a bias because all people have a bias filter that we look through but I think they try harder than most in giving straight up news.  

That Jesus is actually a slippery slope to social justice, and the United States is Rome. 

Please explain

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Please explain

It's been well documented by others, but basically American Christianity has drifted into the creation of an American Jesus that does not reflect his true Middle East upbringing or the context of his times. Jesus Christ became a symbol of American manifest destiny and his believers granted a higher moral calling. Especially among Evangelicals, this got co-opted into a form of religious nationalism and embraced by the political Right (whether believers or not) as a Christian Nation fighting a war against a modern and immoral secular world.

What they (willfully) got wrong about Christianity is that pretty much any reading of the New Testament would land Jesus as a street-level activist in the progressive/social justice spectrum of modern America, and like Rome, the forces of American Nationalism would want to shut Jesus up as quickly as possible.   

 

[TGHusker]

It's been well documented by others, but basically American Christianity has drifted into the creation of an American Jesus that does not reflect his true Middle East upbringing or the context of his times. Jesus Christ became a symbol of American manifest destiny and his believers granted a higher moral calling. Especially among Evangelicals, this got co-opted into a form of religious nationalism and embraced by the political Right (whether believers or not) as a Christian Nation fighting a war against a modern and immoral secular world.

What they (willfully) got wrong about Christianity is that pretty much any reading of the New Testament would land Jesus as a street-level activist the progressive/social justice spectrum of modern America, and like Rome, the forces of American Nationalism would want to shut Jesus up as quickly as possible.   

I agree on all points now that I know what you meant. 

Yes, it is sad to see that primarily the evangelical church in America thinks its version of the gospel IS the gospel and that it needs to be the new Rome dictating to others what and how to believe.  The church is so much bigger and broader that that what we find her. And the gospel is so much more inclusive and grace filled than what we often hear in the USA.  NT Wright opened up my theological brain to these facts.  We have such a short time line in America compared to the church in much of the world. Then we warp the gospel even more by tying it to the GOP  -  I was telling my wife the other night that the evangelical church, primarily, has lost its prophetic voice by siding with a con man, huckster, & character depleted, immoral & ignorant narcissistic sociopath - ( I think I covered my bases in describing trump :B) ). 

Here is the deal:  There are many of Trump's policies that I supported as a conservative. However, the long term affects to the church and to our country and to the GOP as a political party out weight any short term benefit his policies may have had.  The normal yin and yang of politics usually causes a rebalancing.  But the cultural changes to the country, the church and to the party may take many years to correct.  The GOP has been radicalized, our country is more divided than ever and the American evangelical church has lost its true identity and mission in many areas.    You got me riled up on that one.  :boxosoap

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yeah, the problem I have is that I love listening to NPR at times, most of my life.  I can be at a park shooting hoops, with my big a$$ navy blue CIA surburban (with tinted windows down) nearby with NPR cranked up...  I have tons of stories like that.  Even tuned in Live, near a warehouse parking lot, the night Trump beat Hilary Clinton,.... Although I was personally in shock, I was disappointed that NPR was pissed and upset and moaning and in disbelief...  it really sucked to hear that coming from them....   I miss the older days when it wasn't so much like that, you know?  Just report the f#&%ing news, and stay away from the political bias.  

As pointed out by @Moiraine, it wasn't hard to see where Trump would take this country. Liberal Democracy is in decay, a litmus test to prove loyalty to Trump is agreeing with the belief that the election was rigged - an extremely dangerous position that people on the right collectively shrug off. 

Instead of promoting policies that help solve societies many problems or upholding Democracy, the GOP is willing to tear down American democracy in order to win at all costs. Their primary motivation is to simply protect the highest income earners in America from taxes and to protect the interests of certain businesses - like Koch Industries - from even the slightest increase in regulations.

That's it. The GOP is trading 250 years of Democratic principle so Charles Koch can pay less taxes for the few miserable years he has left of his life. Hope it was worth it.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I will say that I held out a shred of hope in November 2016 that Donald Trump would become slightly less inflammatory and dangerous as President. 

I based this partly on his narcissism: while appealing to angry voters is one thing, he wasn't going to risk the Trump brand on extremist policies and vengeance-baiting once in office. The job itself has historically been a moderating influence. Trump had also successfully bullied the Republican power-base, and I saw a potential upside in that. He was about to appoint people to cabinet and advisory positions who knew far more than he did, allowing him to take credit for their work while remaining the figurehead in the spotlight -- the only job he ever wanted. It wasn't going to be pretty, but it might not be the hot mess or march to fascism all the Trump-haters had been predicting.

I was wrong. 

 

[RedDenver]

Pretty sure this is exactly what Jesus would want:

 

[TGHusker]

I will say that I held out a shred of hope in November 2016 that Donald Trump would become slightly less inflammatory and dangerous as President. 

I based this partly on his narcissism: while appealing to angry voters is one thing, he wasn't going to risk the Trump brand on extremist policies and vengeance-baiting once in office. The job itself has historically been a moderating influence. Trump had also successfully bullied the Republican power-base, and I saw a potential upside in that. He was about to appoint people to cabinet and advisory positions who knew far more than he did, allowing him to take credit for their work while remaining the figurehead in the spotlight -- the only job he ever wanted. It wasn't going to be pretty, but it might not be the hot mess or march to fascism all the Trump-haters had been predicting.

I was wrong. 

Yep,  I feel you pain brother. That was my thinking also.  I remember shortly after Trump took office I started a thread on the few things Trump was doing or saying right.   I was trying to be positive thinking he 'would grow up in the White House' - which many thought at the time - as you noted - the "moderation affect of the WH".  Well, It went down hill from that point.  

 

[JJ Husker]

Yep,  I feel you pain brother. That was my thinking also.  I remember shortly after Trump took office I started a thread on the few things Trump was doing or saying right.   I was trying to be positive thinking he 'would grow up in the White House' - which many thought at the time - as you noted - the "moderation affect of the WH".  Well, It went down hill from that point.  

I was the same way. Figured he couldn’t be as bad as people were saying. I too was wrong.

I guess that’s the thing with tyrants and dictators when they get power, they don’t moderate but rather they go the other direction.

 

[TGHusker]

Pretty sure this is exactly what Jesus would want:

What kind of narcistic, self centered, idiotic, UN-Christlike theology is this?  As a Christian it is painful and embarrassing to watch.    This party (GOP) has become a party filled with people who cannot rationally think through the contradictions within the statements they make and the potential consequences of those statements.   With the 'Southern Strategy" that the GOP embarked on starting in the 1970s but esp since 1988 (Lee Atwater) I've become convinced that the old racist southern Democrat has now become the model of a 'good Republican".  The transfer of party membership has been completed in full.  That is why Reagan Republicans are no longer welcomed and respected in much of the party.  This is why Liz Cheney, Mitt and others like them are treated as traitors.  It is a shame and a tragedy.  Thank-you Trump.    

I was the same way. Figured he couldn’t be as bad as people were saying. I too was wrong.

I guess that’s the thing with tyrants and dictators when they get power, they don’t moderate but rather they go the other direction.

So true.  I guess GWB was wrong when he looked into Putin's eyes as well.